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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 12-20-2012, 10:05 PM
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Default Re: Orvis or Sage?

I'd prefer all my rods be Orvis,,,but I do have to watch SOME pennnies. Still,,that Superfine Touch is haunting me something fierce !
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Old 12-20-2012, 10:16 PM
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Default Re: Orvis or Sage?

Well this is shaping up to be quite a conversation. I've enjoyed reading all these comments. Please continue to add all of your experiences with these top notch rods.
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:00 PM
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Default Re: Orvis or Sage?

There is no right answer to your question but there can be a wrong one. To quote a line from Harry Potter "The wand chooses its owner". Don't let the brand name get in the way of finding a rod that fits you. I traded a Z Axis for a Helios because it cast better for me. If the rod feels right for you then buy it, if not keep searching.

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Old 12-20-2012, 11:44 PM
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Default Re: Orvis or Sage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackster View Post
To be honest, Sage rods always looked mass produced to me as if they were completely assembled not touched by human hands. Their cookie-cutter hardware and decals also turned me off as a potential customer.
Funny, this is what I don't like about Orvis rods... and the writing on the Sage and Winston blanks is one thing I love about them aesthetically speaking.

Though I am thinking of my LL, SP, XP, etc. when I say this. The One, Flight, Launch, etc. have shown a trend in their blank ID that I don't really like.

Side note, check out the episode of Made in America where George Motz goes to the factory and watches them made. There is one little guy who hand-crafts every single grip, really neat to see him work. The lady who paints the blanks is awesome as well, they are truly skilled!!!

No major rod company (that is available in any and every fly shop worth it's salt), IMHO, compares to a Winston in this regard. I am saving up for a BIIIx, I've cast one and its a work of art (to me, I know this is subjective) in every respect

---------- Post added at 11:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:36 PM ----------

Having said all of that, I fish mostly Sage, but my dog's bed and collar are Orvis

I fished a Helios 6 for a full day from a boat, and thought it was a great rod. Really excited about the H2, may have to look for a used one after I finally get my BIIIx
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Old 12-21-2012, 08:44 AM
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Default Re: Orvis or Sage?

It is the dog beds, boiled wool sweaters and Georgia fat-wood that earn the capital to support the costly process of building Helios. I had a Trident #9 that catastrophically failed fighting an albie...it really exploded! And, if you look at the cast being made on, it appears to be the Madison in YNP, the loop deformation towards the tip of the line suggests poor recovery in the tip of the rod or, even worse, a fundamental flaw in the tip section's taper. Orvis built leading edge graphite rods with their early models like Fare&Fine and in the early 80's with the introduction of the Scott-influenced longer-length (relatively) Western Series...on occasion I still fish a Western 8'/#4 and 8'9"/#5. Sage came out with their seminal RPL/RPLxi rods in the mid 80's which were a game changer followed by G.Loomis's great GLX a few years latter and Orvis has been playing catch-up ever since. Perhaps Helios 2 marks a watershed; Jackster writes it is the equal or better than Hardy Zenith which really wets my appetite to try one.

By the way, though I am purposely not discussing cosmetics but focusing on performance of the primary rod series of these companies, if you want to see top-of-the-heap factory craftsmanship in cork work, wrap and finish elegance, hand written logo and data take a look at T&T, the best finish in the business.
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:37 AM
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Default Re: Orvis or Sage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetandsalt View Post
It is the dog beds, boiled wool sweaters and Georgia fat-wood that earn the capital to support the costly process of building Helios.
Doesn't the Helios cost just as much as the ONE? I'd hate to wonder what it would cost if Orvis couldn't subsidize their $800 rods with $200 boiled dog wool duvet covers!

Kidding aside, the rest of what you said about Orvis is where I was coming from. I think of the Far&Fine as Orvis' flagship graphite rod vs. Sage's RPL of the same era.
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Old 12-21-2012, 01:33 PM
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Default Re: Orvis or Sage?

I've been told but I don't know that Helios thermoplastic fiber encasement technology involved a substantial rod shop equipment upgrade that was costly for Orvis but that they are dedicated to this technique. Surprisingly, some of the Korean rod shops have more modern equipment, dust filtration and temperature/humidity control than many a big name US builder. That is one of the reasons some very fine US and European rod designs are fabricated over there. Just as on these shores, they are not all "equal" in quality but I am transgressing. When Orvis built Far&Fine, Trout, All Rounder, etc. they were fundamentally building fiberglass style rods out of this new graphite material...some of them came out pretty good too. It was Harry Wilson at Scott in SF that brilliantly fathomed that this new lighter, stiffer material lent itself to designs that were a foot longer and a line size lighter than glass lent itself too. Wilson is the conceptual father of the modern graphite rod and today's "G" series are direct continuations of his seminal idea. Yes, Fenwick was first (1974) followed a year later by Orvis but not until Scott built the very first 9'/#4 (etc.) a year or two latter did we anglers as well as Orvis and Fenwick, which latter morphed into Sage, "get it".
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Old 12-21-2012, 01:50 PM
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Default Re: Orvis or Sage?

I guess my point is that Sage, Loomis, Winston, can retail their US built rods for essentially the same price point as Orvis' H2. So if the H2's actual cost is that much more due to the technology, then the rod should be that much better than the aforementioned. And by all accounts, including your own S&S, the Helios is on par. Not bounds ahead.
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Old 12-21-2012, 01:50 PM
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Default Re: Orvis or Sage?

Definitely T&T...although Winston makes a nice rod. Wait, had a Loomis once that was awesome. Did someone say Scott? Of course, I would never get rid of my Sages.... Love my Loop rod. I have a TFO that gets it done too. I've heard Burkheimers are the cats meow. My Buddy loves his Orvis. What was the question again? Oh yeah,..the correct answer is T&T.
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Old 12-21-2012, 02:00 PM
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Default Re: Orvis or Sage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradyb View Post
Definitely T&T...although Winston makes a nice rod. Wait, had a Loomis once that was awesome. Did someone say Scott? Of course, I would never get rid of my Sages.... Love my Loop rod. I have a TFO that gets it done too. I've heard Burkheimers are the cats meow. My Buddy loves his Orvis. What was the question again? Oh yeah,..the correct answer is T&T.
I've drooled on some T&T rods in the shop. They are gorgeous. I haven't seen one in a while so I had to peak at the website. They have great deals on discontinued models! The Whisper Lite 4, 5, and 6 WT rods are $420. While still top dollar, that is sweet deal for a new T&T rod.
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