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Old 01-23-2013, 02:23 PM
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Default Re: New gear vs old

Quote:
Originally Posted by silver creek View Post
Unless you know what vintage gear was good, whether it is in excellent condition, and most importantly, whether it is priced right; I think a newbie is better off buying new.
I agree...and while one can ask "what old rod should I buy" questions on line for help, the newb still has no idea what rod he might like fishing. Better to start with one of the many price point rods like the TFO, Redington, Echo, Allen, etc, etc and figure that out first.
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Old 01-23-2013, 03:57 PM
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Default Re: New gear vs old

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Originally Posted by silver creek View Post
Unless you know what vintage gear was good, whether it is in excellent condition, and most importantly, whether it is priced right; I think a newbie is better off buying new.

There are some classic rods and reels that are worth buying BUT because they are desirable and the fly fishers that who it will pay to get it; this is NOT what a newbie should get into. So unless you have a friend that is willing to give you a deal on used, or guide your used purchase, I suggest buying new.

There are inexpensive fly rods you can get that are better than what was top line before. Often they will have more potential that a beginner can appreciate or use. They can be bought in the line weight, taper and action, and length you want without sorting through sued equipment. They have great guarantees that you will not have with the older equipment. Even if an older Sage was guaranteed to the original owner it is not transferable. A new TFO, Echo, St Croix, etc is a better value IMHO. These companies rarely make bad rods. If you don't like one of their rods it is more likely that you ordered the wrong rod action than the rod itself was poorly designed.

So your job is to get the right line weight, right length, and most importantly, the right rod action.

The only freshwater fly reels I would buy used are the original Ross Evo and Ross San Miguel, or San Miguel Vision. New good reels such as Ross and Lamsons go on sale at discount sites often. So do fly lines.
Unless St. Croix has changed their warranty policy in recent years (perhaps since the early 2000's), they only warrant to the original owner. I had an issue with a big box sporting goods store where they sold me a rod as if it were new that was registered to a previous owner. St. Croix was a little helpful, but that bad experience left me with a bad taste in my mouth about both St. Croix and the big box sporting goods store. I now buy NEW rods from fly shops only.

I can think a few other reels that I would add to your list IF you know what you're doing. That said, I believe your point with Ross and Lamson is that they'll take care of you whether you purchased these reels new or 2nd hand. If that's the case, add Galvan to the list as they too will take care whether purchased new or 2nd hand. The Galvans stand behind their products and if you've ever fished one you'll know why. They are excellent products.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:13 PM
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Default Re: New gear vs old


I can't imagine a time when I would let the warranty be the deciding factor on whether or not I bought a used rod.
When you're buying a used rod, you're already getting a deal, beyond that take a little personal responsibly and take care of your gear.
When else do you get no-fault insurance for when you do something stupid ?. That's not something I ever count on.....please
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:26 PM
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Default Re: New gear vs old

I don't subscribe to this thinking that every newbie should start with a price point rod and should also shun the used or quality vintage rods. Sure if one doesn't really know if they even want to fly fish. I knew before purchasing my first fly rod this was going to be a hoot and may never go back to bait casting or spin fishing. Read tons of reviews on rod manufacturers, picked a company and zeroed in on reviews of their rods. Bought the rod, accepted the fact it would take time to learn and never looked back. Have learned how to fish the rod and would never consider trading it. I have since purchased two vintage rods both after exhaustive research and recommendations from folks whose opinion I value. Both of these were bought to expand my capabilities (larger streamers or tight situations) With these 3 rods I should never have to buy another unless one is broken and can't imagine ever having to upgrade.

My point is if a newbie knows him/her self well enough and is willing to be patient and do the research, then buying vintage, used or top flight new does have advantages.

I will get off my soapbox now...

Dave
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:36 PM
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Default New gear vs old

I've only been fly fishing for 3 years but I believe also in the last few points made about buying it new and more importantly taking care of your sticks.

At least with my spinning gear (which doesn't get used much anymore) I have had some of my rods as long as I've been fishing. A few date 20 years or so and I'm only 31.

They tell my own fishing story and I remember that every time I cast them or hook a fish.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:46 PM
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Default Re: New gear vs old

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rip Tide View Post

I can't imagine a time when I would let the warranty be the deciding factor on whether or not I bought a used rod.
When you're buying a used rod, you're already getting a deal, beyond that take a little personal responsibly and take care of your gear.
When else do you get no-fault insurance for when you do something stupid ?. That's not something I ever count on.....please
The only time I can think of that it sort of comes into play for me is if the asking price of the used rod is in the price point of a rod with the warranty card. Really though that's asking price that's an issue, not the warranty,which is why it's important to have a good idea of the value of the tackle you're considering. I do agree with you though, if priced right, warranty doesn't much come into play for me with used tackle. I'll take my chances because like you, I make the effort to take care of my gear.

I recently purchased a rod that had been advertised as having warranty card, which it did, but unfortunately it had already been filled out. In the end, I still got what I believe to be a good deal because the asking price was very fair and the rod has clearly never been used and long since out of production. Of the 2 other sources I could find the same rod, the one I purchased was in the best condition and had the best asking price taking into account the condition.

This brings me to another thought that should probably go in the thread of buying used gear. When you are asking for pictures of the tackle, ask for a photo of the blank warranty card so you can actually see that it hasn't been sent in.
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:18 PM
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Default Re: New gear vs old

Lots of great stuff has already been said. I hope I can add something that you can learn from. What I've learned in my 3 short years:

Buying NEW vs OLD

Nothing wrong with it. I buy used BOOKS, FLY TYING MATERIAL, and TOOLS. I have yet to buy used guns or rods and reels. I take very good care of my gear and am sure others do. But when it comes to rods and reels, I tend to buy new. That may change.

My first rod and reel was just over $400. Some consider that a lot, but I knew I was going to like fly fishing and was going to stick with it. Besides after getting married my wife wouldn't agree with my spending all my money on girls and partying.

US vs FOREIGN made
Plenty of good stuff made overseas. I tend to buy US made since I like keeping the funds here. And, at least when it comes to rods and reels we make some pretty durable and fine items.

Case in point, I own 2 HATCH reels. They are built like tanks, beautiful and some consider them heirloom quality. I don't know about that but they will certainly last forever. I've also owned some great US made ROSS and LAMSON reels. ORVIS and SAGE makes some good reels that are made overseas. As long as the design is done here and quality control is there; the reels hold their value.


MODERN vs VINTAGE

I'm 39. I guess that's young so I tended to buy the newer looking reels and rods. But something happened this year and I'm finding myself liking the classic style (but newer) items also. I have a Orvis CFO II (not a UK made one) but I love the styling.

There are certainly some pieces that have lasted a long time and hold their value. Those items, I've learned, takes some learning to recognize. This forum is a gold mine for knowledge on this stuff. I'll need to learn more before I plop down the bills on something that just might be busted, but I can't tell since I don't know enough.

If you don't know if you'll be fly fishing for the rest of your days on earth, don't spend a lot of money. Heck, there are many on this site and on the water that prove you don't have to spend a lot of money to do it and really enjoy it. But if you have extra cash (after you pay your bills, feed the family, and sock some away) then by all means buy yourself a "reel" piece of art (or rod).

Buy a popular length and weight, research your brands, test cast all you can, find a sale/deal and get going.

Enjoy!
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:29 AM
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Default Re: New gear vs old

I just looked at the St. Croix website and it looks as though they've changed their warranty program since my past experience and it looks favorable for folks who might want to purchase a used rod. Apologies for the lengthy read.

From the website: St. Croix Rods - Service and Warranty


SERVICE & WARRANTY POLICIES
SILVER STAR SERVICE PLAN
The fact that you’re reading this probably means you’ve got a damaged rod. Rest assured that our goal is to get you fishing with it again as soon as possible. Now, if you’re convinced that our error led to its demise and you know the warranty has not expired, then our Silver Star Plan is your best solution. Here’s how it works.
1. Write a note explaining the problem. Send the note, a check for $20* and your entire rod to St. Croix. We suggest using our Discount Shipping Program, which is described elsewhere on this page.
2. If your rod was damaged due to faulty workmanship, then of course we will cover the cost of the repair or replacement during the warranty period.
3. However, if evidence indicates that the damage is due to an accident, normal wear or neglect, then we’ll advise you of the additional cost to repair or replace your rod.
* The $20 s&h charge applies to shipments within the continental USA. The s&h charge for shipments to Canada is $30. Contact St. Croix for s&h charges for shipments to Alaska, Hawaii, and all other countries. The s&h charge for international orders must be paid by credit card (VISA, MC, American Express, Discover.)
GOLD STAR SERVICE PLAN
Ahh..but what if you’re not registered as the original owner of the rod. Or your buddy stepped on your rod, or slammed it in a car door, or worse yet, used it to free a snag. No worries. St. Croix’s Gold Star Plan eliminates the uncertainty of a dubious warranty claim. Here’s what to do.
1. Return your damaged rod to St. Croix. You can use our Discount Shipping Program to save money.
2. Include a note requesting our Gold Star Service, along with a check for the Gold Star fee. Here are those fees:
$50 for any rod in these series: TRIUMPH, PREMIER (all series), MOJO (all series), EYECON, PANFISH, RAGE, RIO SANTO, TIDEMASTER, WILD RIVER
$75 for any rod in these series: AVID (all series), LEGEND (all series), IMPERIAL, BANK ROBBER, HIGH STICK DRIFTER
3. Upon receipt of your rod, our Service Technician will determine whether to repair or replace your rod. Keep in mind we’ll chose to repair it when we can make it perform like new.
4. That’s all there is to it. There’s no additional s&h charge for shipments within the continental USA. The s&h charge for shipments to Canada is $30. Contact St. Croix for s&h charges for shipments to Alaska, Hawaii, and all other countries. The s&h charge for international orders must be paid by credit card (VISA, MC, American Express, Discover.)
GOLD STAR + UPGRADE PLAN

Understandably, you’re feeling pretty badly about your damaged `Croix. So why not make the best of a bad situation and treat yourself to that higher-performance model you’ve been dreaming about? With our Upgrade Plan, you receive a brand new rod with a fresh new warranty. Here’s how you do it:
1. Return your damaged rod to St. Croix. You can use our Discount Shipping Program to save money.
2. Include a check equal to the Gold Star fee (Either $50 or $75 – see above.), plus the cost difference between the price of your new rod and that of your damaged one. It’s best to telephone a St. Croix Customer Service Representative at 800-826-7042 (select Service Center), or e-mail at service@stcroixrods.com for assistance in determining the exact price.
3. That’s all there is to it. There’s no additional s&h charge for shipments within the continental USA. The s&h charge for shipments to Canada is $30. Contact St. Croix for s&h charges for shipments to Alaska, Hawaii, and all other countries. The s&h charge for international orders must be paid by credit card (VISA, MC, American Express, Discover.)

LIFETIME WARRANTY
LegendXtreme Rods
Legend Elite® Rods
Legend Ultra® Rods
Legend Tournament® Rods
Legend Surf
Legend Salt
Legend Elite Fly
Bank Robber Fly
High Stick Drifter Fly
Avid Series® Rods
Avid Pearl Rods
Avid Series® Inshore Rods
Imperial Rods
Legend® Fly Reels
SCV, SCIV, SCIII Rod Blanks
5-YEAR WARRANTY
Triumph® Rods
Eyecon Rods
Mojo Bass Rods
Mojo Surf Rods
Mojo Inshore Rods
Premier® Rods
Rage Rods
Panfish Series Rods
Wild River® Rods
Tidemaster® Rods
Premier® Surf Rods
Avid Series® Surf Rods
St. Croix® Rio Santo Rods
SCII, SCIIW, SCI, E-Glass Rod Blanks
Note: 2005 and prior years offered a 2-year warranty.
1-YEAR WARRANTY
Avid Series® Spinning & Casting Reels
Premier® Spinning & Fly Reels
Legend® Ice Rods
Premier® Ice Rods




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Old 01-24-2013, 04:53 PM
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Default Re: New gear vs old

Just so there is no misunderstanding of why mentioned a new rod warranty, I did not mean that this was why one should buy a new rod.

My meaning was that a new rod warranty has value. This is extra value that a used rod without a transferable warrant does not have. Therefore a wise buyer should consider the presence or absence of warranty in the decision process.
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:44 PM
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Default Re: New gear vs old

Quote:
Originally Posted by silver creek View Post
Just so there is no misunderstanding of why mentioned a new rod warranty, I did not mean that this was why one should buy a new rod.

My meaning was that a new rod warranty has value. This is extra value that a used rod without a transferable warrant does not have. Therefore a wise buyer should consider the presence or absence of warranty in the decision process.
I am actively shopping for a used 8 weight. Weighing between an Sage Xi2, T&T Horizon I, T&T Vector and a Scott S4. for the money, I could get a new TFO BVK but Im not sure I want to go that route when for the same, if not a few dollars more, I can get a great, couple year old rod.

One thing that you can do is contact the manufacturer. They will repair a rod out of warranty if it is sent to them. For example, since I am looking at T&T rods, I dropped them an email about warranty repairs. The response was $125 per section, with the butt being a $250 section. Sage is $150. Weighing those numbers can influence what you buy. It seems like a lot of money but when I remember that I am buying them for <$250 but someone else bought them for >$600. Im getting a deal, even if I take it out and next month break a tip.
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