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  #151 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2013, 09:23 AM
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Default Re: Sage Fly Rod Cosmetics

Ha, several took the "bait" and are rushing to defend their precious "green sticks". Believe it or not, I have cast and fished a ton of Winston rods, never got along with any of them, seem to be too oriented toward small dry flies and short casts. The BIIIx is the best rod they have made since the IM6 stuff, but lacks power for longer casts and bigger flies, agree that it is a very good small dry fly stick, but lacks the versatility that I am looking for. The 5pc LT's were horrible casting rods, anything past 40' was an adventure, and forget it in the wind. The BIIx and BIIt are terrrible, super soft tips that don't track well, and how many fish do you have to miss because the tips don't react before you just put the rod away in disgust. The BII-MX and BIII-SX are heavy and hingy and aren't even close to competitive in the fast rod genre. It's is pretty sorry, when the the whole Winston sales pitch for years, was that a rod only needs to be designed for a 30' cast.

I have always admired Winston's for their cosmetics, and lord knows, I have tried to like them, but have never found one that performed and fished as well as I wanted it to. I have been disappointed nearly every time that I have cast and fished one. Winston obviously has their devotees, and good for them, but I guess that I didn't drink the Kool-aid. To me they are still "style over substance".

And you all think I must be a Sage Nazi. Not true. I own and fish rods from several other manufacturers, G Loomis, Burkheimer, Thomas & Thomas, St. Croix, Beulah, and a couple of old Fenwick HMG's.

I'm kind of equivocal about the new premium Sage models, the One is an excellent, fast action, cannon, but it lacks the finesse in close and with small flies. The Circa has the opposite issues. Not sure that it is a good move to have these two, specialized series to replace the very good (IMO) Z-Axis and ZXL series that were very versatile.
  #152 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2013, 10:43 AM
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Default Re: Sage Fly Rod Cosmetics

Me thinks years of using a particular type action of rods may have engrained the need in some people to horse a rod to make it work. If the same technique is used on certain green sticks they will not take to it kindly. It's really that simple.
To try and convince some of us that Winston rods are inferior fishing or casting tools may be correct, if you don't know how to use them. I have no problem whatsoever setting the hook with my boron/graphite Winstons and when I do set the hook I land fish that would break off on other, tomato stake-esque rods. Feeling te rod laod at 20' is a given with a Winston but I have no problem at all in casting that same rod 100' with a nice, smooth stroke and without breaking into a sweat to get there. True story.
To each his/her own. I happen to enjoy using rods that cast well and more importantly fish well and are known to be drop-dead gorgeous.
I like Winstons for trout-type fishing but prefer other brands for salt water fishing. My quivver is full of different brand rods for different reasons but from 3 to 7 weights rods it's predominantly Winston I own and use because they do so well for me in those weight ranges. I have somehow managed to do great in some 30 years of hard core fly fishing with never owning a Sag rod. Maybe I never got drawn into their hype or glitzy advertising or maybe I shied away after seeing their flavor-of-the-month model changes drop the price of the rods they pushed so hard to convince the world were the end-all, do-all of fly rods. Their ads turned me off back when the cork in their ads looked as clean and flawless as cardboard until reality hit when I eyeballed them at fly shops. False advertising anyone?
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  #153 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2013, 11:24 AM
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Default Re: Sage Fly Rod Cosmetics

Ok, ok... Before this degenerates any further.

My aggressive criticism of Winston and Orvis was just to make a point. I haven't found one that I cared for, so be it, but I don't denigrate those that do love them.

This entire thread was becoming a hatefest on Sage in general. Maybe some points are justified, some not so justified, and many, just a matter of taste. If you don't like Sage, fine, don't buy one or fish one. No reason to have malice toward the company or product. It is just a fly rod after all, not a radical terrorist organization.

I have fishing buddies that swear by their Winston and Orvis rods. We give each other some good natured ribbing about the rods we choose to fish. But in the end, if you love the rod you fish, and it "speaks to you" and lets you do what you want without a fuss. Fantastic. We all have our reasons to like one thing or another. Is there one "perfect" product or "right" way to suit everyone? No, thank god.

All of these manufacturers are important to the fly fishing industry and I am glad that they are all in business and continue to offer a wide range of products to suit most any fisherman.
  #154 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2013, 11:36 AM
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Default Re: Sage Fly Rod Cosmetics

I like Orvis rods,,because for me...they control really good in close. I do not cast long...I hunt fish, find fish, cast short and catch fish. That's just my way. I cant see some of my dries at 70ft ! I think Orvis is well suited for my style of fishing on the small waters here. And rods that flex a great deal to me,,give me a better fish on feel. My BVK 5wt,,,I bought for the river smallmouth,,isn't very sensitive 'fish on' if the fish isn't pretty dang big. I do not see it as a trout rod at all.

A ONE,,unless it was about an 8wt to muskie and striper fish with,, wouldn't be my cup of tea. Wouldn't be a trout rod for me at all. But if you trout hunt in big wide waters,,it might be the thang.

Winstons,,,not to have owned one,,impress the dickens out of me in appearance..and honestly,,that's all I can go by,,,but too many good trout men tell wonderful things about them for me to dismiss them as not being wonderful trout sticks.

Were I to purchase a Sage,,it WOULD be one of their more relaxed flexes that I hear good things about.
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  #155 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2013, 11:57 AM
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Default Re: Sage Fly Rod Cosmetics

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Originally Posted by coolhand View Post
My aggressive criticism of Winston and Orvis was just to make a point.
I would think out trying to make 'points' in the future, because that point was pointless, wrong and fell flat on it's pointless point. Since you hate your Winston so bad, methinks your casting tis the real problem, as I said, give it away or sell it. Why do you still have it if you think it sucks so bad? Or do you protest for as I said, taking the Sage bashing personally?
  #156 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2013, 12:32 PM
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Default Re: Sage Fly Rod Cosmetics

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Originally Posted by Diver Dan View Post
I would think out trying to make 'points' in the future, because that point was pointless, wrong and fell flat on it's pointless point. Since you hate your Winston so bad, methinks your casting tis the real problem, as I said, give it away or sell it. Why do you still have it if you think it sucks so bad? Or do you protest for as I said, taking the Sage bashing personally?
Geez.. let it go
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  #157 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2013, 12:45 PM
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Default Re: Sage Fly Rod Cosmetics

Diver Dan - easy big boy, don't pop a vessel running me down. Be careful drawing conclusions about someone's casting ability before you have actually seen it. I'll let my casting ability speak for itself.

You like Winston, fine with me. You don't like Sage, again fine. What makes it ok for you to run Sage products down, and me to defend them and to point out the limitations of Winston (based on experience)? By the way, the guy that says he can throw a 100' with a Winston Trout Rod.... I will believe that when I see it. I know damn few that can consistently throw a 100' with any trout rod.

Just don't be flinging a bunch of poo, and talking about blank straightness and spline alignment, etc. when 99% of fly casters can't tell the difference. I have heard and seen all of it before, some guy comes in to the fly shop and looks at how straight the blank is, and nitpicks away at this and that. Take him out to cast and he is a limp wristed idiot that can't throw 30' without piling up the line. My experience is, that this guy likes a super soft rod like a Winston over a Sage, because he can't cast well enough to load the Sage.

The reason I haven't gotten rid of the Winston is that, the Winston Rep talked me into this rod and had my name engraved on it. Who wants a Winston with some other guys name on it? It also reminds me not to make that mistake again.
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  #158 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2013, 12:51 PM
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Default Re: Sage Fly Rod Cosmetics

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Originally Posted by dhayden View Post
Geez.. let it go

That would be a first.
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  #159 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2013, 01:21 PM
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Default Re: Sage Fly Rod Cosmetics

Is it Spring yet?
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