The North American Fly Fishing Forum
Go Back   The North American Fly Fishing Forum > Tackle Talk > Fly Rods

Fly Rods Post any comments or questions regarding fly rods...


Like Tree209Likes

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2013, 01:26 PM
noreaster's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
Posts: 682
noreaster is just really nicenoreaster is just really nicenoreaster is just really nicenoreaster is just really nicenoreaster is just really nice
Default Re: Sage Fly Rod Cosmetics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diver Dan View Post
... so far I have to say, building on straightest visual line causes weird oscillations that most would find hard to believe.
By the way, in our preliminary tests we also used a tip from a spey rod blank that is a second and not built on. The flaw in it is that they apllied the clear tape when they rolled the blank to tight and it 'kicked' the tip. Without guides and just turned to straightest visual line it oscillated. Not only did it oscillate, but it did in an increasingly rotational manner till the oscillations actually reversed direction. At some point I think I will do a thread in the rod building section it. Maybe the fly cast section would be as good, because as I said, in getting a really long cast, you need good tracking. How can you track right if the rod does a hula dance on it's own?

If I were in charge at Sage, I'd make them stop making such butt ugly rods, but more importantly I'd stop that straightest visual line stuff.
I am so glad you posted this Dan. I have often looked down the sight line of a rod and noticed it seemed to bend or favor a bit this way, or that way, such that it didn't match perfectly the reel seat zone. I wondered if this was planned or a design flaw. Most recently in a Sage replacement tip I had made for my sentimental RPL Graphite III. Very subtle bend to the right. Nice to know it may be planned to make up for some funky physics anomalies. Although you did say Sage uses visual sight lines when building their rods so maybe it is out a little I have no idea.
__________________
"Whale oil beef hooked !"- Traditional east coast fisherman saying

Last edited by noreaster; 03-18-2013 at 01:47 PM.
  #42 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2013, 02:06 PM
FrankB2's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Southeast Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,745
FrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Sage Fly Rod Cosmetics

In Klunker's defense, he wrote:
"Again, to me a fly rod is a tool. Nothing more or less. I like good quality tools myself, I have all all kinds of mechanic and machinist tools in various tool boxes out in my work shop as I have several machine tools and I work on older cars at times. I really appreciate a well built functional tool. The biggest satisfaction I get out of a tool is when it performs its intended task well."

The sentence in red would seem to mean that epoxy icicles hanging off the rod would be unacceptable.

Dan,
That St. Croix rod was whacky! It did its thing alright, but when my buddy Jack applied the tiniest amount of pressure in a different direction, that section was dancing to its own beat. Some people say that you learn nothing from wiggling a rod, but I learned a lot that day.

Bamboo: I spend about 30 minutes stringing up bamboo. It looks great, and almost works as well as graphite. Actually, my wife was afraid of breaking my first $800 bamboo rod, but when she finally cast it, her casts were better than with graphite.

Sage and Cosmetics:
The reel seat sliding ring was starting to look pretty weird on my ZXL, like the plating was coming off, but it's not plated. I called Sage, and they said they would replace it at NO cost. This is a rod that I have fished with hundreds of days, in scorching hot weather, and freezing rain. When the rod gets wet from rain, the epoxy wraps get a little milky where the rain drops hit (in the shape of the ran drop ). I called Sage, and they said they would re-wrap the rod for free. The milky thing goes away after the rod dries, and since I fish this rod 99% of the time, I told them I'd send it in if a structural problem ever occured. They didn't want the $50 that they charge for broken sections, and told me to send it in whenever I wanted the free cosmetic repairs.

Priorities:
Cars and motorcycles meant a LOT until I got married. They mean a lot to me again lately, and I just bought a really nice convertible last October. The house needs to be organized. I've had a carbon/kevlar canoe in my living room for a little over one year!!! I was tying some flies last week, and used my scissors to trim the hair away from my eyes (true story). I like to wear a jacket I bought in 1996, and it makes my dad crazy for some reason. It's a good jacket.
Guest1 and jastrout like this.
  #43 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2013, 02:07 PM
sweetandsalt's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: -
Posts: 2,082
sweetandsalt has much to be proud ofsweetandsalt has much to be proud ofsweetandsalt has much to be proud ofsweetandsalt has much to be proud ofsweetandsalt has much to be proud ofsweetandsalt has much to be proud ofsweetandsalt has much to be proud ofsweetandsalt has much to be proud ofsweetandsalt has much to be proud ofsweetandsalt has much to be proud of
Default Re: Sage Fly Rod Cosmetics

Aesthetics are hard to debate, everyone knows that. I think T&T rods are among the best finished in the factory rod business. Many like the way Winston's look. Lets be a little analytical: T&T thread wraps are beautifully coated with a thin, level finish that stays were it belongs - on the thread. Winston used to do that but has gone to the single, more viscus single application of coating and, like an average Korean rod, it bleeds substantially onto the nice green blank. The Sage in the funky bright colors in Dan's post cuts the difference; the finish does overlap a little but is relatively level and not bulging heavily. Sage uses machined, anodized aluminum seats as in the picture. Nickel silver as used on bamboo rods is attractive and takes on a burnished patina over time but the aluminum is stronger, lighter and corrosion resistant and note that both the under-cork hood and, cap and lock-nut are all machined, not stamped, for long term durability. My beloved ONE #5 in its translucent black with bronze aluminum and dark wood spacer sets an understated, stealthy appearance...it does lack the cane-like attention to cosmetics that T&T or Burkheimers exude but its blank is fabricated by the most stable, professional crafts team in the rod business utilizing remarkable technology of fiber alignment and compression harmoniously designed into a low oscillating, rapid recovering, no twist tracking, supreme taper transitioning, casting marvel by one of today's elite designers, Jerry Siem. The design/technology/build quality of the blank, the quality of the hardware and cork work are a testimony to American manufacturing know-how and quality. There are rods, that some may prefer the color, grip shape, wood spacer choice and even finish details of but if casting and angling performance are the decisive determinants, the ONE deserves it un-humble name.
FrankB2 and billyspey like this.
  #44 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2013, 02:13 PM
swirlchaser's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Parlin, NJ / Staten Island, NY
Posts: 2,058
swirlchaser has a reputation beyond reputeswirlchaser has a reputation beyond reputeswirlchaser has a reputation beyond reputeswirlchaser has a reputation beyond reputeswirlchaser has a reputation beyond reputeswirlchaser has a reputation beyond reputeswirlchaser has a reputation beyond reputeswirlchaser has a reputation beyond reputeswirlchaser has a reputation beyond reputeswirlchaser has a reputation beyond reputeswirlchaser has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Sage Fly Rod Cosmetics

My 2 cents, I have a 6wt VXP. As far as performance of the blank goes I have no complaints. As a rod builder I would never buy this rod again unless it was 60% off list. Reel seat is cheap, insert cracking, grip is avg grade cork. The guides and wraps are also sub par for what I paid. If I wanted a good cast and assembly line looks and materials I could have bought 2 TFOs with what I spent on the VXP.
I don't think they build a bad rod, I actually think they work quite well, but to me "high end" means you have to perform AND look the part.
__________________
The best way to a fisherman's heart is through his fly.
  #45 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2013, 02:23 PM
FrankB2's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Southeast Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,745
FrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Sage Fly Rod Cosmetics

What Sweet& Salt said! Loved the last section of the post!!!!

I forgot to add my rant about reels to my last post. If I never see someone suggest a piece of junk $79 reel for a $700 rod again, it won't be soon enough. It doesn't happen here often, but it happens. Same with a $14 line. That falls into the "Prioroties" category above.

---------- Post added at 02:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:15 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by swirlchaser View Post
My 2 cents, I have a 6wt VXP. As far as performance of the blank goes I have no complaints. As a rod builder I would never buy this rod again unless it was 60% off list. Reel seat is cheap, insert cracking, grip is avg grade cork. The guides and wraps are also sub par for what I paid. If I wanted a good cast and assembly line looks and materials I could have bought 2 TFOs with what I spent on the VXP.
I don't think they build a bad rod, I actually think they work quite well, but to me "high end" means you have to perform AND look the part.
I bought a Z-Axis in person from Cabelas, and bought another from there a year later mailorder. The second rod looked nowhere near as nice as the first, and I sent it back for another. I told them to open the tube, and have someone that knew what they were doing inspect it. They did, and the second rod looked perfect. I hate to say it, but it seems to be one of those products that is best bought in person.
  #46 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2013, 02:29 PM
Guest1's Avatar
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Lake of the Woods/Rainy River Minnesota Canada border
Posts: 4,752
Guest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Sage Fly Rod Cosmetics

Quote:
Originally Posted by noreaster View Post
I I wondered if this was planned or a design flaw. .
It's neither. It's really hard to make one come out straight. It's not a design thing, it's just that in the real world, perfection is really hard to do. What they are trying to do, which is bad design, is hide the imperfection from you. When you got one with a clear bend off to the side I assume it was because they goofed when they decided on which side to do it or for a change they built it right and put it on the spine which has nothing to do with the curve in the blank. That or on a replacement part they just randomly do it.

I want to add something about the test I mentioned. I predicted that rod tips would do an eliptical wobble. I based that on the fact that a rod bending off spine twists. It put the long axis center of gravity away from the blank due to the weight of the guides. I knew this was going to happen way before we did the test and said so. What I did not predict is that the eliptical wobble would not be stable. It rotated from the plane it was flexed on to 90° out. In one case it got to that point, flattened out then widened in the opposite direction. I knew it would create an eliptical wobble before the test. What the test did was to show that it is not a stable wobble and is in fact worse than I predicted.

Did any of you have those toys as a kid called a Spirograph? If you did you can imagine the rod tip path I am talking about. Now it was said, "well built tool" so how does an electric drill suit you that wobbles like an unbalanced tire?

Last edited by Guest1; 03-18-2013 at 02:47 PM.
  #47 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2013, 03:15 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 126
klunker will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Sage Fly Rod Cosmetics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diver Dan View Post
Here's the part of the rod right in front of the grip.

Click the image to open in full size.

Hey, for those "It's only a tool, don't care how ugly" guys, how far does that cavalier attitude extend? The cars you buy? Those are just a tool to get you from point A to point B. How about your home? That's just a tool to hold your stuff and keep you and it out of the weather. How about your clothes? That's just to keep you from being arrested and put on a watch list. How about your haircut? That's just to keep it out of rotating machinery like your bike chain.
Dan, an honest reply to your questions.
That "cavalier" attitude extends pretty far I would say.
The cars I own, I really don't care how they look, I have a newer wagon, It gets washed maybe once or twice a year, whats the point? You as well as I live in snow country, you get it washed and before you get it home its dirty. I use it to pull my fishing boat, gravel roads, dust mud and what else. The Insides get dirty to, I move from spot to spot fishing with my waders on. If I had to have it "nice" looking I'd spend more time cleaning than fishing or enjoying the more important things in life. But I do maintain it well, I do all the maintenance on it, change oil, filters, brakes what ever it needs. I don't trust most garage mechanics. It gets what ever suggested maintenance the mfg suggests. I'll bet most people spend more time worrying about the appearance of their vehicles then their maintenance, which is more important? I'll also bet that most of those people don't keep on maintenance, it gets fixed when it breaks. I'd rather have a dirty well maintained car than a clean poorly maintained car, wouldn't you? After all if it can't get you from point A to point B then what good is it for?

My home. Its got vinyl siding on it, I don't wash it or anything if that's what you think. Again I'll fix anything that's in need. I mow the lawn when it needs it, I don't fertilize or weed and feed my yard. I try to mow less and less every year. I like the wildlife around the yard so I am not fond of using poisons. I do have lots of flower gardens around the house, but that's on of the things I enjoy, gardening. I have lots of fruit trees, veggie gardens and flowers, all organically grown too. The organically grown stuff may not look as good but its definitely healthier and more sustainable in the long run. Tastes Good too. But I don't do pruning of flowers to encourage more blooms, I let them do their thing. I do prune trees and berries to encourage fruiting and better growth habits. If they look good that's just a bonus. I care about the results on the table more than the appearance in the yard.

My clothes, I don't own a suit, I have shirts with holes in them and grease stains on them. Don't bother me, I suppose you toss them out and waste resources? I also have "nice" clothes that I wear when I go out with my wife cause she cares, I don't
Fact, I'll be working on cars and be dirty and grimy and I'll have to run to the hardware store to get something, I'll go as I am. I'm not cleaning up and changing clothes. My wife will say "your not going like that are you?" To which I reply "there is no dress code at Ace Hardware"

My hair cut?
I cut my own hair, I give myself a butch. Its quick, its easy, I don't have to drive into town and wait, I save money, I don't have to comb my hair, its very FUNCTIONAL! I can tell when its time to give myself a haircut when my wife tells me I need to start combing my hair. I can't tell by your picture cause your wearing a hat but you don't get $200 hair cuts at a "sylist" do you? or are you bald and better off than even me?

Honest answers Dan, Take them for what they are worth, probably nothing. Again, nothing personal, not meant to offend, just thought I'd toss it all out there for you since you asked.

I would say a couple of things tho

There is a place for appearances, they convey a level of confidence, quality, satisfaction and other attributes that may or may not be deserved. Everyone has a different measurement stick they use to check the cosmetics of an item. Yours apparently has much finer graduations on it then mine.

For me, once I got past worrying about what others think I could be secure in my own choices and decisions. Once I did that I came to be in a more calm, peaceful place. Am much happier, much better for your health, stress is a killer.

Not everyone sees everything the same, I can appreciate that you put appearances higher than me, it really doesn't matter to me. I'm OK with that, are you be OK with that or do I have to see it your way? cause you don't have to see it my way.

Que, Sera, Sera.
  #48 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2013, 03:27 PM
sbreech
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Sage Fly Rod Cosmetics

All this fuss about appearance from the same peeps complaining about others that buy Abel nippers.
FrankB2, jaybo41 and troutnut4 like this.
  #49 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2013, 03:35 PM
fly_guy12955's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: southwest , Virginia
Posts: 1,410
fly_guy12955 is a splendid one to beholdfly_guy12955 is a splendid one to beholdfly_guy12955 is a splendid one to beholdfly_guy12955 is a splendid one to beholdfly_guy12955 is a splendid one to beholdfly_guy12955 is a splendid one to beholdfly_guy12955 is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: Sage Fly Rod Cosmetics

'And Moses stood on the shore of the great waters,,,and cast'eth his ONE rod over the great sea,,and immediately the waters folded into two parts,,the left part, and the right part, and all the fish came forth from the depths onto the sand were Moses stood and proclaimed in a loud and never-ending voice,,,,,'TAKE ME BILL TYLER, TAKE ME !!'

1st Book of the Wise Sage, William Robert 'Lunar' Ticck - Chapter 1 Vs 1

Now don't go get upset with my smart azz humor boys,,I'll be as redundant and defensive of my Superfine,,,,,,IF,,,,,,,the dang thing every gets here!! should have arrived today. I'm bout to be irritated.
swirlchaser and caseywise like this.
__________________
'The only constant in fly fishing is that the fish haven't changed in thousands of years.'
  #50 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2013, 03:43 PM
swirlchaser's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Parlin, NJ / Staten Island, NY
Posts: 2,058
swirlchaser has a reputation beyond reputeswirlchaser has a reputation beyond reputeswirlchaser has a reputation beyond reputeswirlchaser has a reputation beyond reputeswirlchaser has a reputation beyond reputeswirlchaser has a reputation beyond reputeswirlchaser has a reputation beyond reputeswirlchaser has a reputation beyond reputeswirlchaser has a reputation beyond reputeswirlchaser has a reputation beyond reputeswirlchaser has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Sage Fly Rod Cosmetics

My argument here isn't "tool" or "jewelry", it's value.

I'm not too hung up on appearance but I do want to see VALUE. If I pay $800 for a rod I expect it to perform AND top notch components. I guess I'm a bit jaded because as a rod builder I know what these components cost. If I can buy that blank for $500 I expect to see $300 worth of components and workmanship or it's a bad purchase to me. So here's how I would look at this:

Sage One 9' 5wt MSRP $775

Sage One 9' 5wt blank $363

Does a factory Sage One have $412 worth of components and workmanship? I can tell you that if I get the overwhelming itch for a Sage One I will build it.
Jackster, FrankB2, Guest1 and 4 others like this.
__________________
The best way to a fisherman's heart is through his fly.
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
SAGE 3100 Fly Fishing Reel With Sage 0 Wt. Fly Line & Backing Near Mint USA Made Ebay USA Fly Reels for Sale 0 11-25-2012 07:00 PM
Sage Model No. 106 Fly Fishing Reel Works And Sounds Sweet Sage Is Mfg. By Orvis Ebay USA Fly Reels for Sale 0 11-08-2012 11:30 AM
SAGE SP+ 5weight 9 foot Fly Fishing Rod, two piece in orig. Sage aluminium tube Ebay USA Fly Rods for sale 0 02-05-2012 10:40 PM
Sage Fly Fishing Reel Great Condition WF-5-F Sage Quiet Taper Ebay USA Fly Reels for Sale 0 01-13-2012 10:00 PM
Sage RPLXi 1489-3 8'9" #14 3pc. Saltwater Fly Rod-Sage Classic in Awesome Shape! Ebay Canada Fly Rods for sale 0 12-27-2011 03:10 PM













All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
2005-2014 The North American Fly Fishing Forum. All rights reserved.