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Old 02-27-2008, 08:08 PM
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Default Re: beginning rod vs. intermediate, advanced

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Originally Posted by cadhopper View Post
Being somewhat of a beginner myself I can agree with this. I have two $600+ rods from Sage and Scott and they are both fast action rods. I get frustrated at times because I can't feel the rods load on the back cast so my timing gets off. I have several rods in the $300 dollar range from G-Lommis and Ovis that are medium-fast action and I can feel these rods load so my experience is much more enjoyable. Hopefully with time I will become experienced enough for the Scott and Sage but for now they will stay in the back of the closet. My favorite has to the the 4 wt G-Lommis Stream Dance Metolius which casts like a dream and is one heck of a bluegill rod. It's given me many enjoyable days in the kayak.

Just my $0.02 and I hope you find what your looking for.
But... what you paid still didn't determine the rods action... there are expensive med action rods, and less expensive fast action rods, the cost has absolutely nothing to do with it. Which model Sage and Scott do you have?

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Old 02-27-2008, 08:10 PM
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Default Re: beginning rod vs. intermediate, advanced

Thanks everybody for your replies. I guess I'm just getting really frustrated trying to select a new rod for myself. I think rather than trying to make my next rod selection by reading about the rods, I need to get out and try out as many as I can. Unfortunately I don't have a lot fly shops near my home so a road trip may be in order.

I've been fly fishing for about 4 years and have a few rods I guess that would be classified as beginners rods. And now that I have the fever really bad buying the next level up is becoming really frustrating with all the stuff that's out there.

So I will continue to read and ask questions, but I know now that the real test is getting them in my hand.
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Old 02-27-2008, 08:31 PM
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Default Re: beginning rod vs. intermediate, advanced

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Originally Posted by tca1954 View Post
Thanks everybody for your replies. I guess I'm just getting really frustrated trying to select a new rod for myself. I think rather than trying to make my next rod selection by reading about the rods, I need to get out and try out as many as I can. Unfortunately I don't have a lot fly shops near my home so a road trip may be in order.

I've been fly fishing for about 4 years and have a few rods I guess that would be classified as beginners rods. And now that I have the fever really bad buying the next level up is becoming really frustrating with all the stuff that's out there.

So I will continue to read and ask questions, but I know now that the real test is getting them in my hand.
Depending on where you live, or where you're willing to travel to go fishing, you might consider a fly fishing lesson with a guide before you buy any rods. You can ask the guide to bring several different rods in different actions so the experience can be like a combo fishing trip/flyfishing lesson/rod test. That's actually how I got introduced to different types of rods, but I guess the trouble is that not all regions in the country have flyfishing guide services.
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Old 02-27-2008, 08:40 PM
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Default Re: beginning rod vs. intermediate, advanced

One thing I'd like to add, this has happended to me and when it did I had a long whoop of a try to fix it. About the 2nd or 3rd time I was out with my fly rod, I dont know how this happend, the tip eye had broke. The only tip eyes I could find were for spinning rods. By chance a little shop had one similar, but it didnt fit right. It took a lot of epoxy to get the eye to sit right. Once righted, the rod works like new. The thing is I picked up a good starter set. Rod, reel, backing, line, and tipit. Though I am better with it now then I was then, I had a hard time with it starting out. I was almost certin that I'd have broke it more times then just one. Hitting a tree, rock, breaking it in the rod holder etc. Though I have no trouble with it now, I know how I'd feel having starting with a pricy rod. Make sure that you can spend the money on something that you might break. Granted this is something that comes up with any fishing. When I got started fishing some 20+ years ago I was given a rod that if it broke no big deal. As I grew better I was able to spend the money on better equipment. With some of the rods/reels out there you can easily spend $300 or more. If you are able to handle a rod and are willing to take that risk, then do so. Get a rod that fits you very well. Just my $0.02
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Old 02-27-2008, 09:16 PM
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Default Re: beginning rod vs. intermediate, advanced

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Originally Posted by tca1954 View Post
I need to get out and try out as many as I can. Unfortunately I don't have a lot fly shops near my home so a road trip may be in order.
Bingo... a road trip now and again is good for the soul, lad!

Another HUGE consideration... the rod is only half the equation, how you line it makes a huge difference in how it performs and works into your casting rhythm. Faster rods in less experienced hands will feel and perform better overall with heavier lines.

I was out playing with a new 5wt rod today... first I loaded my old stand by Wulff TT, felt good, and threw very well from about 1/3 'til I (much to my own surprise) emptied my spool. It felt a little light, didn't load as well as I like in close, and was not quite as accurate as I would like (granted this was in the first 10 minutes of casting a brand new rod). So, I put on my Rio Grand, got the close load, nice and accurate, but started to collapse the rod once I got out past half line. I think Wind Cutter will be a nice all around balance.... we'll see.

Some rods in some hands work well with different specific lines, and some work well with a variety of lines. The 590-4 RPL is one of my all time favorite rods because for me, it fishes well as three very different rods depending on how I line it. I find most of my other rods have a very distinct sweet spot that have to be dialed in with one or two specific lines to really utilize.

I don't mean to add chaos to confusion for you here, but I do want to emphasize that how any rod feels in hand, fishing, is largely a function of the line characteristics.

Have a good trip, man
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Old 02-27-2008, 09:19 PM
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Default Re: beginning rod vs. intermediate, advanced

My feeling on this is by BEGINNER rods, are ones in the lower price range so in case it is not your bag (and in a lot of cases the less expensive rods can turn you off due to weight and mentioned action)
Most of the BEGINNER rods (with a few exceptions like Orvis Clearwater, Launch) are made overseas by an assembly line that probably have no idea what a fly rod is for (as apposed to by professionals)
In most cases, people keep their BEGINNER rods as back ups after they up grade.
I do agree "FLEX" is the key word for a beginner.
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Old 02-28-2008, 05:05 PM
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Default Re: beginning rod vs. intermediate, advanced

From my experience the best beginners rods are what I would call medium to medium fast in the flex range. A slow rod or extremely fast rod are much harder to develop timing with. And be clear with the exception of certain specialized situations their is no right or wrong type of rod, it has more to do with casting stroke. I came from the background of tournament bass fishing and rod building. The thing we looked for was a fast rod, the faster and higher modulus the better. So I started out with Loomis and Sage rods.

A guy in a local fly shop (after I had been fly fishing for about five years) talked me into a Winston rod (much slower, more even flex). What a revelation, I slowed down my casting stroke, my accuracy improved (much more important then distance) and my presentations improved. It's funny that one of the posters mentioned the Sage 590 RPL, I traded mine for a Winston WT 865. And I couldn't believe the improvement in my trout fishing. The 590, handled IMO almost like a 7 weight (I could throw bass bugs with it). Well I can assure you a rod that will throw bass bugs won't lay a trout fly down soft. So am I right and the guy with the 590 wrong?

NO!!!! I was fishing Alaska last year with one of the best casters I know and we had this discussion about slow vs. fast rods. He is a fast rod person, he demonstrated to me "snap cast" for close presentations, and I showed him the accuracy of a quick shift my forearm with my slow rod. BOTH got the fly to the fish, we just have different approaches. And most beginners don't really have a feel for the casting style yet, you have to do this for a few years to reinforce your bad habits (Sarcasm). The point to this long winded exhortation is this:

With the quality of Rods like TFO, the new Cortlands, Echo and a few others in the 150 -300$ price range there is no reason for a beginner to drop 600-700$ on a new rod unless you have a lot of disposable income. I fish with the new Cortland Big Skys and Brooks, even tough I have a bag full of Hardys and a few of my own old Winstons. I don't feel like I'm giving up much. As you develop your style you'll undoubtedly lust after a Summers Cane, a Sage TCR, A Winston, a Hardy or many others depending on your casting style and the type of fishing you prefer.
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Old 02-28-2008, 06:15 PM
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Default Re: beginning rod vs. intermediate, advanced

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Originally Posted by GRN View Post
But... what you paid still didn't determine the rods action... there are expensive med action rods, and less expensive fast action rods, the cost has absolutely nothing to do with it. Which model Sage and Scott do you have?

TL's~
No argument about the price thing.

I let the local fly shop talk me into buying a Sage Xi2 and a Scott S3s rods for bass fishing. It was an expensive lesson because for the life of me I can't feel the rods load on the back cast.
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Old 02-28-2008, 06:43 PM
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Default Re: beginning rod vs. intermediate, advanced

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Originally Posted by cadhopper View Post
No argument about the price thing.

I let the local fly shop talk me into buying a Sage Xi2 and a Scott S3s rods for bass fishing. It was an expensive lesson because for the life of me I can't feel the rods load on the back cast.
Xi2 what wt... that rod sings in salt...it's a 168 BT Matchking in .308...now if it's largemouth or smallmouth...bass then they were wrong...get a cabelas or bass pro private label IMHO...but if it's a 7, 8 or 9 go salt...don't be gentle...snap...haul...wait for the feel..snap...haul...reds, bones...and besides she's gorgeous, has all her teeth, and can conjugate verbs
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Old 02-28-2008, 08:13 PM
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Default Re: beginning rod vs. intermediate, advanced

Fast rods are easier for beginners to cast. I'm not talking a TCR or GLX. Those are fast rods for experts.
Medium fast to fast rods hide a lot of mistakes beginners make. If one is serious about learning to fly fish, a slower rod like an Orvis Trout Bum, Scott G's, Winston IM6 or WT, or a fiberglass rod (there are others too including bamboo) would be a great rod to learn with. It will teach timing, and better casting form. You can't hide a mistake with a slow rod. It can also be more frustrating. It's all in how hungry you are to learn.
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