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Old 04-08-2014, 08:49 AM
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Default Re: Question regarding oversize rod for smaller flies?

There is no doubt that heavier line weights cast with more authority than lighter weights, particularly the ultra-light #3's and down. Now no one will suggest fishing an 8-weight on a wee brook but a #6 or even 7 on a big river will handle small dry flies better than most 4-weights. Using an advantageous to dry fly fishing line with a long leader tapered appropriately to fly size and slip striking with a deft hand helps too. As a long time observer of other people casting as well as my own experience, I see more sloppy, unfurled upon the water, line landings during presentation with light lines than with say, 6-weights whose mass is conducive to unfurling in the air. One has more control with the mass of a #6 than a #4, its physics.

As graphite rods continue to become lighter in physical weight and more sensitive due to decreased mass, I perceive an increased interest and rationale in fishing a 6-weight rather than a #4 or 5 and predict a 6-weight renaissance.
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Old 04-08-2014, 09:32 AM
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Default Re: Question regarding oversize rod for smaller flies?

I think big rod, small flies is the norm at the San Juan when fishing for 20" trout using #22 and smaller flies. a 6wt rod is probably not unusual at all there.
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Old 04-08-2014, 10:02 AM
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Default Re: Question regarding oversize rod for smaller flies?

It is a much better situation to have a heavier line weight rod for small flies than an underweight/light line rod with big flies or wind.

I find myself fishing more with my #6 and even #7 and #8 rods more these days. The 4 weights are being left home in the closet. I find I have much more line control, and a #6 still gives you some feel for smaller fish (12" and under).

My first graphite rod was a Fenwick HMG, 8', #6. I used it for everything for years and loved it. Sadly, it was broken a few years back. Since then I have been searching for a 8' rod to replace it. Most 8 footers, available today, are#4's, and none that I have tried, quite replace that old HMG. Maybe, it is just a line weight thing.
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Old 04-08-2014, 11:21 AM
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Default Re: Question regarding oversize rod for smaller flies?

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Originally Posted by sweetandsalt View Post
There is no doubt that heavier line weights cast with more authority than lighter weights, particularly the ultra-light #3's and down. Now no one will suggest fishing an 8-weight on a wee brook but a #6 or even 7 on a big river will handle small dry flies better than most 4-weights. Using an advantageous to dry fly fishing line with a long leader tapered appropriately to fly size and slip striking with a deft hand helps too. As a long time observer of other people casting as well as my own experience, I see more sloppy, unfurled upon the water, line landings during presentation with light lines than with say, 6-weights whose mass is conducive to unfurling in the air. One has more control with the mass of a #6 than a #4, its physics.

As graphite rods continue to become lighter in physical weight and more sensitive due to decreased mass, I perceive an increased interest and rationale in fishing a 6-weight rather than a #4 or 5 and predict a 6-weight renaissance.
When I test cast the new Radian which is lighter in the hand than any of my other rods, I noticed the Radian 9' six weight is actually lighter than my Scott G 9-04. I loved casting that rod, I was very tempted to buy that six rather than the five I ended up with, but I already have two nice six weights and no nice fives.
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Old 04-09-2014, 03:19 PM
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Default Re: Question regarding oversize rod for smaller flies?

It sounds like everybody seems to see it pretty much as I do. However, I hadn't thought about the fact of lighter materials in rod construction in today's world actually creating a situation where a higher weight rod will allow one to enjoy the "fight" of a fish that would the same weight rod ten years ago. Nobody wants to haul in a 12 inch fish with a broomstick.
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Old 04-09-2014, 04:20 PM
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Default Re: Question regarding oversize rod for smaller flies?

And no one wants to fish a broomstick. I have a few though. Lots of folks here talk about love for older 1980's vintage Orvis rods, F&F,etc. Have any of you ever fished an Orvis Boron-Graphite? These were not like todays Winston "Boron" rods where they like say Boron to them containing about as much of the material as a Martini does vermouth. These old rods, and there was NOTHING stouter in their day, were 60% Boron...broomstick? A witch could have ridden around on one of these things! They actually could fight big fish like crazy but were work to get line out with.

Today, when folks say "broomstick" they tend to mean "fast action". I have lots of these too and none of them are "stiff". They are the most lively and sensitive rods in my collection. When rod makers group higher modulus carbon fiber closer together using less and more thorough resin systems, they build rods smaller in diameter and thinner in wall thickness while producing even more strength and power. It is remarkable that a 6-weight rod is realistic that feels and looks like a 4-weight but throws the whole line with a tight loop. Stiff? No. Super quick recovering with minimal oscillation, Yes. These rods feel almost alive, like an extension of your casting arm.

The tough part for many to wrap their consciousness around is the diminishing feeling of loading mass in these new rods. You feel the line and its movements more than the rod itself during casting. For the angler weaned on the sense of flex in cane/glass/early graphite...feeling the mass of the rod bend itself; making that more translucent and communicating more directly with the line is a sea change. Once realized though it is freeing. I so frequently emphasize the relevance of the fly lines taper and weight distribution because, so often, it is the line I am in touch with and the magnificent rod is doing my bidding directing the path of the line as it unfurls and the tip forms motions translated into precise curves that counter the river's current upon alighting on it. Its hard to do with too little mass in the line so I all but never fish lighter than #4, 5-weight being most common but increasingly 6-weight line, which is a bigger size jump from #5 that #5 is from #4, is what I select. It is, after all ,the line that articulates the placement, attitude and control of the fly. And that is what the fish gets to see.
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Old 04-09-2014, 04:29 PM
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Default Re: Question regarding oversize rod for smaller flies?

S&S, always looking for a reason (excuse) to buy another rod, I have a 9' 5wt Radian, 9' 6wt Scott G and a 10' 6 wt Echo 3, if I wanted to add a 6 wt Radian, would you go 9', 9 1/2', or maybe something else?
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Old 04-09-2014, 04:46 PM
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Default Re: Question regarding oversize rod for smaller flies?

For the type of Fishing that we mainly do these days I & many others use 6Wts however I also have smaller weight Rods down to a 2 Wt which I use in The Small Creeks & Rivers.
Years ago before all The Modern Weight Forward Lines came on the scene all that were used were 7Wt Rods.
Lots of people use 5 Wts as well however I find The 6 Wt does the job better when fighting large Fish & there isn't any problems when using Small Flies all is required is Lighter Leaders & Tipits or a Furled leader & Lighter Tipits.
With the Modern Rods they are heaps lighter that the Older ones especially some of The Old Fibreglass ones I've used.
I was out last night & all that seemed to be around were 12-14 inch Rainbows & even though I was using a 6Wt I knew I had them on as they really gave The Rod a workout
Brian.
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Old 04-10-2014, 08:34 AM
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Default Re: Question regarding oversize rod for smaller flies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by glacierjohn View Post
S&S, always looking for a reason (excuse) to buy another rod, I have a 9' 5wt Radian, 9' 6wt Scott G and a 10' 6 wt Echo 3, if I wanted to add a 6 wt Radian, would you go 9', 9 1/2', or maybe something else?
Of course you also have your #4 G, correct? I think you are going to fish your Radian #5 a great deal and you have the ECHO3 long rod for drifting big nymphs I suppose. The #6 G (as an older model that has no doubt softened some, I might try a RIO Gold WF5.5F on it. All Golds' are 1/2 heavy) is a slower softer rod no doubt delightful on medium sized water. Were I to add a contemporary more powerful #6 I would a. go 9' (almost always the best casting length in graphite rods) and b. select something other than Radian as it might be too close in character to your #5. Perhaps the ONE? The T&T NS or Solar are worth a look too.
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Old 04-10-2014, 10:39 AM
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Default Re: Question regarding oversize rod for smaller flies?

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Originally Posted by sweetandsalt View Post
Of course you also have your #4 G, correct? I think you are going to fish your Radian #5 a great deal and you have the ECHO3 long rod for drifting big nymphs I suppose. The #6 G (as an older model that has no doubt softened some, I might try a RIO Gold WF5.5F on it. All Golds' are 1/2 heavy) is a slower softer rod no doubt delightful on medium sized water. Were I to add a contemporary more powerful #6 I would a. go 9' (almost always the best casting length in graphite rods) and b. select something other than Radian as it might be too close in character to your #5. Perhaps the ONE? The T&T NS or Solar are worth a look too.
Thanks, how about an NRX? Is it light like the ONE and Radian? I do have my #4 G, my main rod actually. I'll try your line idea on my #6 G, it does feel soft compared to the fifteen year newer #4 G.
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