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Old 04-17-2014, 08:54 PM
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Default Re: 9'6"?

I just got a 10' 3 wt. Icon from Allen a couple weeks ago. Used it last weekend and I have to say, I want more. 4,5,6 don't care, it's like crack. Gimme more!!!
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Old 04-17-2014, 09:16 PM
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Default Re: 9'6"?

I have a Cabelas CZN 9'6 3wt and it's a sweet rod. Mending and high sticking is a lot easier... in my case my longest trout rod is 8'6... So the extra foot is nice
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Old 04-17-2014, 09:37 PM
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Default Re: 9'6"?

Puget sound beach, fast dropping tide of several feet, steep bank, backcasts that hit the rocks behind you. Longer rods = higher backcasts = less chance of hanging your fly in a chunk of driftwood behind you.
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Old 04-18-2014, 05:58 AM
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Default Re: 9'6"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by comeonavs View Post
Not to be a jerk but I am starting to disagree with this thought process lately. Specifically in nymphing situations. Dry fly I agree with you, but nymphing on small tight quarter streams I find I roll cast a lot. I also tend to just "dap" which is just picking it up and literally placing the fly where I want it. A 10' rod for that to my way of thinking and fishing has its advantages....dang it I just convinced my self I need a 10' 3wt
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Old 04-18-2014, 08:13 AM
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Default Re: 9'6"?

Quote:
What are the advantages of these length rods? Do you feel they are better than 9' rods in some situations?
Yes. That's why I had a Loomis IMX made for me in a 10' 8wt years ago. I wanted it because I used to wade for bones a lot back then when bones were really plentiful - as were sandpipers.

In order to avoid spooking the sandpipers, which, in turn ALWAYS spooked the bones (and, to me, it seemed intentional !) , I would wade on the outside and cast to bones tailing in close. Sometimes I would be chest deep, and the longer rod was an advantage since the rod handle was very close to the water.

So there are definitely salt water applications for longer rods as well fresh water ones.
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Old 04-18-2014, 11:43 AM
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Default Re: 9'6"?

I'm going to take a look at some 9'6 fly rods this weekend and try casting them. Is the bending profile allot different from a 9'?

Kim
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Old 04-18-2014, 12:25 PM
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Default It's not the size of the ship, it's the motion of the ocean.

Don't get caught up in a single specific rod length.
9’ 6” is not some mystical length that will solve a casting deficiency or even provide you with the type of tool you're looking for. If 10 footers are in vogue and they have been at several points over the last thirty years, you can bet that rod companies will try to gobble up their share of available market. Once the demand slows, you'll see a corresponding drop of 10 foot models being offered in the following years.

Case in point, we could ask the question " What does Cabela's know about popular rod model sales? "
Take a look at their many house branded models and see how many 9' 7 weight models they offer. While they stock 9' for 7's that carry name brands, under their own label, 9' for 7's are an endangered species.
Now look to see if they offer their house brands in seven weights in 9' 6" or 10 foot models. Ah ha ! The light goes on…

What? No one fishes saltwater, black bass, trout with streamers or silvers with 9' - 7 weights anymore? What does Cabela's see in their sales figures, that we don't?

Over the years we've seen a few companies nail a taper to a specific rod weight and length. The Orvis seven nine far and fine comes to mind. The 8 9" - 3 weight Sage LL is another, Scott has had it’s day in the sun with the magical 8' 8" length in some models. While other rod companies seeing the success of these rods, have at times tried to jump on the magical length bandwagon with their own versions of those tapers, their offerings seldom hit the mark.

I fish one 9' 6" rod model that hit the mark and it's popularity out here is still high, even though the model was discontinued over a decade ago. If it were somehow destroyed and not able to be replaced, I wouldn’t necessarily run out and buy another 9' 6". Why, because it wasn’t bought for it's mending ability, nor it’s ability to carry a back cast high from a float tube ( back cast’s go where you direct them ). That rod throws shooting heads from a standing position something like 80% of the time, with a Versi-tip system making up the rest of it workload and this model simply does that job very well. The designer knew that and outfitted it with saltwater hardware, long before rods of that weight commonly were. So a 9’6” that was designed to throw open loops with heavy multi nymph, shot & indicator rigs won’t fill the gap. Same goes for a 9’ 6” that was designed to fish damps and dries for steelhead on a long bellied floating line. Simply being a 9’ 6” isn’t enough and casting a half dozen 9’6” rods in a given line weight with the lines that most fly shops have for demo purposes won’t tell me what I need to know.

Back around the year 2000, there were all sorts of 10 footers making the scene out here and in a couple of years, the classifieds were clogged with them and the bulletin boards were choked with guys complaining about joint problems. Much the same way that saltwater switch rod novices out here, just had to buy & try to fish those rods as single handers in the surf. Now those rods pop up in the classifieds daily.

The culprit with longer single hand rods wasn’t the physical weight of the outfit nor poor casting mechanics, in every case. It was simply being on the wrong end of to long of a lever, fighting heavy fish, working with Hi D lines, rolling heads up and out of the water, hundreds of water hauls a day, in deep turbid water for too long a period of time. Now we’re being sold on 10 footers again. With the promise that since they’re able to make them lighter and lighter ( stiffer and stiffer too, which makes for one unforgiving lever ), the issue of wear and tear on the joints won’t resurface. Yet, slowly but surely we’re starting to see some of the old joint problem threads resurface throughout the web.

My point, a given rod length is not a guarantee of performance. Over the years, some have nailed a taper to a specific length while others would have been better off following their own drummers. Why not a 9’ 7” - 7 wt or a 8’ 10” six weight. Did Echo nail a taper matched with a given length with their Edge 84’s ( 8’ 4” ) rods or is their one model in the line up that’s the clear winner and the rest just there to round out the line up and to lend credence to the concept?

TT
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Old 04-18-2014, 12:44 PM
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Default Re: It's not the size of the ship, it's the motion of the ocean.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trout trekker View Post
Don't get caught up in a single specific rod length.
9’ 6” is not some mystical length that will solve a casting deficiency or even provide you with the type of tool you're looking for. If 10 footers are in vogue and they have been at several points over the last thirty years, you can bet that rod companies will try to gobble up their share of available market. Once the demand slows, you'll see a corresponding drop of 10 foot models being offered in the following years.

Case in point, we could ask the question " What does Cabela's know about popular rod model sales? "
Take a look at their many house branded models and see how many 9' 7 weight models they offer. While they stock 9' for 7's that carry name brands, under their own label, 9' for 7's are an endangered species.
Now look to see if they offer their house brands in seven weights in 9' 6" or 10 foot models. Ah ha ! The light goes on…

What? No one fishes saltwater, black bass, trout with streamers or silvers with 9' - 7 weights anymore? What does Cabela's see in their sales figures, that we don't?

Over the years we've seen a few companies nail a taper to a specific rod weight and length. The Orvis seven nine far and fine comes to mind. The 8 9" - 3 weight Sage LL is another, Scott has had it’s day in the sun with the magical 8' 8" length in some models. While other rod companies seeing the success of these rods, have at times tried to jump on the magical length bandwagon with their own versions of those tapers, their offerings seldom hit the mark.

I fish one 9' 6" rod model that hit the mark and it's popularity out here is still high, even though the model was discontinued over a decade ago. If it were somehow destroyed and not able to be replaced, I wouldn’t necessarily run out and buy another 9' 6". Why, because it wasn’t bought for it's mending ability, nor it’s ability to carry a back cast high from a float tube ( back cast’s go where you direct them ). That rod throws shooting heads from a standing position something like 80% of the time, with a Versi-tip system making up the rest of it workload and this model simply does that job very well. The designer knew that and outfitted it with saltwater hardware, long before rods of that weight commonly were. So a 9’6” that was designed to throw open loops with heavy multi nymph, shot & indicator rigs won’t fill the gap. Same goes for a 9’ 6” that was designed to fish damps and dries for steelhead on a long bellied floating line. Simply being a 9’ 6” isn’t enough and casting a half dozen 9’6” rods in a given line weight with the lines that most fly shops have for demo purposes won’t tell me what I need to know.

Back around the year 2000, there were all sorts of 10 footers making the scene out here and in a couple of years, the classifieds were clogged with them and the bulletin boards were choked with guys complaining about joint problems. Much the same way that saltwater switch rod novices out here, just had to buy & try to fish those rods as single handers in the surf. Now those rods pop up in the classifieds daily.

The culprit with longer single hand rods wasn’t the physical weight of the outfit nor poor casting mechanics, in every case. It was simply being on the wrong end of to long of a lever, fighting heavy fish, working with Hi D lines, rolling heads up and out of the water, hundreds of water hauls a day, in deep turbid water for too long a period of time. Now we’re being sold on 10 footers again. With the promise that since they’re able to make them lighter and lighter ( stiffer and stiffer too, which makes for one unforgiving lever ), the issue of wear and tear on the joints won’t resurface. Yet, slowly but surely we’re starting to see some of the old joint problem threads resurface throughout the web.

My point, a given rod length is not a guarantee of performance. Over the years, some have nailed a taper to a specific length while others would have been better off following their own drummers. Why not a 9’ 7” - 7 wt or a 8’ 10” six weight. Did Echo nail a taper matched with a given length with their Edge 84’s ( 8’ 4” ) rods or is their one model in the line up that’s the clear winner and the rest just there to round out the line up and to lend credence to the concept?

TT
Thank you for posting this. It puts things in a different light.
How would you judge a rod you were interested in buying?
The shop I'm heading to has a casting pool outdoor. As mentioned I fish in saltwater for seatrout along the danish coast.

Kim
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Old 04-18-2014, 01:49 PM
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Default Re: 9'6"?

Kim,

The best situation is if the shop just happens to have a loaner of the exact model(s) you’re interested in, that they’ll let you take fishing for a few days. Some do it for a nominal fee and then apply that fee to the rods purchase price if you buy one. Others, will just take your CC info as collateral in case you don’t come back with the rod.

In lieu of that, try to mimic your usage as closely as possible.
" You don't want to tear up your own fly lines on the pavement " is the basic message I get when we go rod shopping around here. Yet, unless the shop can match the lines I must use on the rod I’m after, that’s exactly what I’m prepared to do. I’d much rather test cast a few rods with one of the well used heads or specialty lines I use, then to blow $800.00 on a rod that won’t handle a $40.00 head or $90.00 line with the types of load I intend to put on them.

I’ve been at this for a while, so I have quite a few well used lines around.
Most fly shops around here ( 200 mile radius ) have only floating lines to try, primarily they’ll be WF’s and all of a single model. They won’t have a single saltwater taper, bass bug taper, integrated head, shooting head system, multi-tip system, sink tip, full sinking or even a floating double taper. So I show up with the lines I intend to fish on the rods I’m there to try. The bonus, is that I’ll be using the very reel on the rod that I’ll be fishing on it, so I get the feeling for the whole outfit. Not how the rod feels with some lightweight - cast aluminum, two sizes to small reel model that shop has laying around in a drawer with a parking lot line on it.

If I intend the rod to be a wading rod, I don’t spend the entire casting session standing in the parking lot, casting down at a target. I get down on my knees or butt and cast. I try to go to shops on breezy to windy days and cast the rods in every direction, because for my money, it’s not whether I’ll be fishing the rod in the wind. It’s going to be windy, the only question is direction and velocity.
I bring test flies, that I know the shop won’t have safety issues with. For instance, even though I’d like to try it with a Clouser, I bring a couple deceiver’s with their hooks clipped at the rear of the shank, etc. I think we all have leaders left over from trips gone by that have seen better days, again I rig the outfit with my leaders.
Indoor pools are fine for water hauling, rolling sinking lines up, that sort of thing, but I’d still get it out in the wind…even if it’s on the roof of the shop. Don’t laugh, there used to be a shop out west that did just that. Tested out rods on the roof.

TT
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Old 04-18-2014, 10:25 PM
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Default Re: 9'6"?

What weight 9' rod are you using now, and what are you trying to improve by lengthening the rod?

The heavier the weight line you are using, the more noticeable it is when you lengthen the rod. This can be really noticeable when surf fishing in the wind - which is generally blowing into your face. Longer rods will also obviously have more wind resistance to overcome (especially into the wind) and will consequently require more energy to overcome.

So I would take whatever you are using now with you to compare against the longer rod using the same line on each that you intend to fish with.

If you are going to be blind casting for hours into the wind and surf, keep that in mind when comparing the two. It is not the same situation as wading the flats for bonefish and making 10 casts on a great day. I should have made that point more clearly in my last post.

The last rod I went to buy was going to be a 11 wt. However, the 11 wt rod I tried was not as powerful a casting rod as I expected, and I wound up buying a 12 wt rod for the 11 wt line I was buying the rod for.

In my opinion, most people shop backwards. They buy the rod, then try numerous lines to put on it and sometimes wind up wasting money on one or two lines at $90 a pop trying to find one to fit the rod. And when all is done, they often wind up with two rods using the same line when they were after two different line weight rods.

The numbers on the rods (and on the lines) don't mean a whole lot. And further, the line I use on a rod could easily be two line weights different from what someone else would use on that same rod. So no one can tell a stranger what line will work "best" for him on what rod either, and have it mean anything.

Sooo, as you will hear over and over again here, the best way to avoid being unhappy with a rod purchase is to cast it before you buy.

In short, the advantages to a longer rod are that you can pick up line off the surface at greater distances, mend easier, increase the stroke length at the rod tip, keep the line further away from your neck, and gain some on distance over that same line on a shorter rod with equal casting power (assuming that is even possible).

The disadvantage is that it may take more out of you than you have to give. And you may get more distance using a shorter rod with a heavier line or a shooting head.

Trouttreker, while it is certainly true that the caster determines his backcast trajectory, it's also true that the backcast trajectory determines, in large measure, the forward trajectory. This is especially true on long casts that have to land softly with a long leader fully extended. For me, this is easier to accomplish when standing in deep water with a longer rather than a shorter rod, so long as it is not a 10 wt or heavier.

But, that is not what the poster seems to be talking about; and, like always, he will have to try out different rods himself, and see what suits his own manner of casting and his physical shape. Since his fly shop has a casting pond, they obviously know this. Casting on his knees is a very good tip that he can easily do there, though I doubt they will go for anything but yarn on his leader.

Sorry, Kim, but that's what I've learned after 56 years of fly fishing - nothing.

Nobody knows what's best for me, and I don't know what's best for anybody else either. Hell, I don't even know what's best for me anymore. They keep changing things every year faster than I can learn. So don't worry about it, just go fishing with whatever you like.
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