Evalute this rod for a newbie please

[hgriffin1]

I have been offered the fly rod in the attached pictures. I am completely new to bamboo fly rods so I am asking for some help in evaluating this rod. Is it a counterfeit of a good name (i.e. has someone added the name after the fact), has it got any visible problems, what is it worth? I realize that it is difficult to evaluate properly from a few pictures but I am hoping someone can do a cursory evaluation. If it appears to be worth while, I will seek out an expert for a full evaluation. It has the following designations in black under the lacquer just above the butt: "Leonard"; 8'-7" ; 5 wt. All of these appear in the attachments. It is in a cloth bag in a metal tube with a chrome or Nichol screw cap.
There are no engravings on the butt or any of the other metal parts.

Thanks in advance for your assistance.

Cheers,
Hugh

 

[peregrines]

Sorry I don't know boo, but you could post here too:
The Classic Fly Rod Forum - Message Board - Yuku

The guys and gals over there could probably give you more info in terms of what to look for specifically (bends or sets, cracks/splitting, evidence of re wraps replacement etc in terms of what to look for in an old boo rod, as well as give some opinions on authentication etc to make sure its a Leonard.

Good luck, and let us know what you find out. It looks like a beauty to my eye, but I don't know nuthin' about cane.

peregrines

 

[Ard]

Is it offered to you for free or is it for sale?

If free I wouldn't worry too much about its origin. If for a price that's another matter.

Main points are as follows; are the shafts strait and the tips of equal length? Can you see any fractures or obvious repairs to the rod?

As for authenticity could be that the rod was refurbished by a non professional and the hardware has been replaced. The shaft re-marked as for reference.

There are very specific tapers for Leonard rods and a micrometer will tell you if you have an actual H.L. Leonard taper. I am not a Leonard expert but do not know of an 8'7" 5wt. using a Micrometer on the rod may be the only way to identify the taper when the rod is unmarked or marked as this one is.

Hope that helps a bit. I've had a few unknowns and used measurements to identify the rods. As stated, if it's free it's all good.

P.S. just took another look at your pics, ferrules don't look like Leonard to me but remember if it's free take it. Also with the pinned butt cap I would expect flamed shafts not bright but then I'm no expert.

Oldman knows cane...................

 

[Joni]

If it is a true Leonard...WAHOOO! The wraps do look old school.
If you can feel before buying (if that is the case) Put it together, but remember, Bamboo is STRAIGHT IN, no twisting. Then wiggle the stick. I have had some that doing this you feel a clicking more or less, which means ferrules might not be lining up right.
As Hardy said, are the pieces the right length (not broke off then re-capped). Next are all pieces straight.
If it is a true Leonard, it would be worth it even if you needed minor adjustments made.
LUCKY YOU!

 

[hgriffin1]

Hello Hardy(and thanks to those who have posted so far!),

I am being offered the rod for $125-$150. The length seems good. I measured the overall length and I was 8-7". The handle section and mid section are straight. The tip section (only one) is slightly bowed. Otherwise, it seems to be intact. No splits or other damage is visable.

Thanks,
Hugh

 

[FrankB2]

"Newbie" in the sense that you haven't done any flyfishing before? If that's
the case, I'd find a nice 8'6"-9' 5wt graphite rod. The bamboo rod may not
be the best for learning how to cast. Of course that comment will open a
can of worms, but it's true . $125-$150 will buy a very nice rod, especially
if you look at the used market. I have an 8'6" Diamondback Aeroflex 5wt in
the Classified Forum, and I guarantee you'd be much happier with that. There
are other rods there as well....

 

[Rip Tide]

Even if it is a counterfit it's still worth $125
If it's really a Leonard it's worth a lot more...10 times maybe

 

[Joni]

That is true. For a newbie as far as function, Graphite for sure. That bamboo could be a collectors, but maybe not. You would have to get a trained boo eye to tell you that.
But, again like FB2 said, if you are looking for a fly rod to USE and learn with...I second the plastic.

 

[Ard]

Hello Hardy(and thanks to those who have posted so far!),

I am being offered the rod for $125-$150. The length seems good. I measured the overall length and I was 8-7". The handle section and mid section are straight. The tip section (only one) is slightly bowed. Otherwise, it seems to be intact. No splits or other damage is visable.

Thanks,
Hugh

You can buy a new rod with two tips for that money on eBay. The one tip thing would bother me especially on an old rod. The pinned butt cap tells me it is pre sixties maybe even pre fifties. The varnish looks like it is scaling and does not look original although it could be photos can deceive the eye.

Check the Bay / eBay search Bamboo fly rod and take your time, you'll be better off with a 2 tip rod whose manufacturer is still around in case you pop a tip. I wore out a tip on my flea rod back in the 90's. I didn't step on it, slam it, or anything else. I had fished it about 75 - 100 times a year for 15 years and it simply popped above the male ferrule wrap one day. I finished the season with my spare then sent it back to the manufacturer and they replaced it for free. Thank you Mr. White.

So, think long and hard before buying a single tip rod of unknown origin for $150.

 

[ksbrowntrout2]

I own three Leonards. Unless someone has completely redone that rod, that is probably a fake. If this is your first fly rod, i dont think youll be happy with boo. Bamboo takes a kind of mind set to fish it right. Some features (the wraps) say yes, but the rest say no.

I would be leery of buying a rod like that without two tips, and from an unknown seller.

 

[Ard]

I own three Leonards. Unless someone has completely redone that rod, that is probably a fake. If this is your first fly rod, i dont think youll be happy with boo. Bamboo takes a kind of mind set to fish it right. Some features (the wraps) say yes, but the rest say no.

I would be leery of buying a rod like that without two tips, and from an unknown seller.

With that said, take a look at those windings. I dress rods better than that, much better. Been a long time since I've been in a shop that sold Leonard rods (last one I knew of 1977) but this one doesn't look good to me.

 

[ksbrowntrout2]

Let me clarify...i have seen a few TRUE leonards with the rap colors like that, but they appear to be cheap and fraying a little bit, which would be EXTREMELY unusual of a leonard.....

 

[Ard]

KS,

It's all good, I didn't mean to tread on your cane credentials I was just issuing a further warning to the potential buyer.

I associate windings like those with pre 1950 works and some British dressings. As stated they are usually much tighter even if the varnish is wearing thin. I tried to PM you but the site says that's not happening. That's why the post was out here for all to see our back and forth.

You don't happen to have a model 50 do you? An old friend used to let me fish his when I was pondering a purchase long ago. Wish I had gotten it.

 

[MontanaMoose]

Hello hgriffin1, well you've been offered some great advice already but I took a look at the pics and I can point out a couple of things and ask a question. The reel seat isn't what I'm used to seeing on Leonard rods and the markings are fairly obviously applied with a modern marker.

I'd ask you to have a look at the end of the butt cap to see if there is anything inscribed there and though there may have been some early Leonards with nothing there, even the predecessor Mills and sons rods had an inscription. Oh and the swelled butt does make me think of a Leonard but then there were other bamboo fly rods that had that also.

At best it may be an old redo of a Leonard, in which case and if the pieces were the same length it could be salvaged but I wouldn't start at the price mentioned.

Also you could locate a knowledgeable builder in your area to have a look at it for verification....or, just buy it if it seems fishable (Joni's 'shake it' advice is right on) then use it and enjoy it...hope this helps half as much as some of the other info !

Cheers,

MontanaMoose

 

[ksbrowntrout2]

Hardy,

In no way had i taken any offense. I also was trying to keep someone from getting ripped off. Ive read your posts, and know that you are knowledgable.
As you said before, its all good.

I also tend to agree with Montana Moose. If you cast it and you like it...FISH IT!

Once you go to cane, its hard to go back to graphite. Then you run into the problem that everyone who loves cane runs into...$$$...

New cane rods retail from 800-2500 bucks.

Best of Luck, and be sure to ask anymore questions

 

[MontyMan]

hgriffin1,

The rod you have posted is most likely a high-end Montague fly rod, probably from the 1940's or 1950's.

The reel seat, ferrule markings and swell in the butt of the cane at the grip are all consistent with high-end Montys from this period. The reel seat is the style used on the Red Wing, Manitou and about a dozen other high-end Monty models. I have one in front of me now with a cedar insert that is nearly identical to the one in your photos. It is most likely not a Red Wing or Manitou, since these did not typically have the wood spacer, and the cane on them was typically flamed to be darker.

It appears that the rod was re-wrapped and re-varnished. The wrap colors would be nearly identical at both ferrules, if the wraps were factory or professionally done.

The hand scripting of "Leonard" and the length and weight are not consistent with scripting on Montague rods, or any other manufacturer that I've seen. The script is much too sloppy to have been done by a professional. It looks like it was scribbled on with a felt tipped marker. It is even smudged in a few places.

Others have given you some solid advice about an extra tip, and your relative experience with bamboo.

If all 3 sections are of equal length, it could be worth $100, but it's still a gamble. If not, it is probably not worth $100, and you can get a lot more rod for your money than this one. The attempted deception alone would turn me away from this rod.

If the re-finisher left any signature wraps on the cane, just above the cork grip, I may be able to identify which Montague model it is/was. Feel free to PM me for additional help.

MontyMan