The North American Fly Fishing Forum


Go Back   The North American Fly Fishing Forum > Tackle Talk > Fly Rods

Fly Rods Post any comments or questions regarding fly rods...

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2011, 08:38 AM
FrankB2's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Southeast Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,760
FrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Proper Fly Rod balance

I have a 9' 5wt that felt heavy after casting for a while with a really light reel. One day I slapped on a heavier reel (that's what I had with me), and the rod suddenly felt better! I was one of those who believed that a light rod and reel would balance each other nicely (this is not a heavy rod), but I feel differently now.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2011, 06:44 PM
mojo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Yewta
Posts: 2,143
mojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant future
Default Re: Proper Fly Rod balance

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave5977 View Post
Mojo brings up a phase that I'm not sure what it means --> Swing Weight <---. Is this what you feel when the line loads the rod in the forward cast and back casts? If that's true, then when you double haul, you're feeling more swing weight because you're loading the rod more???
I'll let the professional writer do his thing.
Measuring Swingweight
http://www.sexyloops.com/articles/swingweight.pdf
__________________
Life is not like a bowl of cherries. It's more like a jar of ghost peppers. What you eat today might burn your ass tomorrow...
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2011, 08:15 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 112
304rodco has a spectacular aura about304rodco has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: Proper Fly Rod balance

I've always thought the whole balance thing was pointless. Unless you can find the balance point with 30' of line in the air the exercise is well, pointless. Actually, it seems to me if the rod is tip heavy then it will generate more momentum and and reduce casting effort.
__________________
Lee Orr - Maker
304 Rod Company

www.304rodcompany.com
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2011, 07:22 PM
mojo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Yewta
Posts: 2,143
mojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant future
Default Re: Proper Fly Rod balance

Quote:
Originally Posted by 304rodco View Post
I've always thought the whole balance thing was pointless. Unless you can find the balance point with 30' of line in the air the exercise is well, pointless. Actually, it seems to me if the rod is tip heavy then it will generate more momentum and and reduce casting effort.
I would think that's the case on the forward cast when you shoot the line. But, you still have a back cast and after a while it will start to wear on your arm and wrist. The right reel (weight wise) will help balance out a tip heavy rod and be less tiresome to your upper body throught the day. Counter balance.
As far as the balance point with 30' of line out, what's the point there?

BTW, I like your website. And being from the western U.S., what's the 304 stand for? And where exactly is BFE, WV where your friend Phil lives(I never realized there was that many places in the country that were named the same)
__________________
Life is not like a bowl of cherries. It's more like a jar of ghost peppers. What you eat today might burn your ass tomorrow...
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2011, 08:30 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 112
304rodco has a spectacular aura about304rodco has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: Proper Fly Rod balance

The point of the 30' of line is that most people balance the rod without line, which will only represent what it feels like carrying it to the stream. The force of 30' of line in the air kills any sense of balance between the rod and reel.

Thanks for the compliments. 304 was the WV area code until last year, when we got a second one. And yes there are BFEs everywhere, but WV tends to have more than most places.
__________________
Lee Orr - Maker
304 Rod Company

www.304rodcompany.com
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 01-16-2011, 10:08 AM
mojo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Yewta
Posts: 2,143
mojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant futuremojo has a brilliant future
Default Re: Proper Fly Rod balance

Does casting the line really make balancing your outfit moot?
I'm going to have to disagree with you. Once you start to cast, the line becomes part of the equation. That's helping by loading the rod.
The line in itself doesn't weigh that much, but with a tip heavy rod, the inertia of the line, (no matter if you have 10', 30' or 60' out) is going to increase the tip heavyness even more, and wear on you upper body parts. You back cast will be affected, your forward cast will be affected. Your arm and wrist will start to fatigue because you're fighting to stop and start each cast. You're pushing your fly rod and having to muscle it. With a balanced outfit, you're not fighting all that but you're letting your outfit do what it was designed to do.
Hopefully I'm getting across what's in my mind.
Anyway, you really have some good prices on your rods. And your workmanship looks impecable. I'm going to have to try to talk Joni into seriously looking at some of your blanks (after we build what we have now).
__________________
Life is not like a bowl of cherries. It's more like a jar of ghost peppers. What you eat today might burn your ass tomorrow...
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 01-16-2011, 11:13 AM
Joni's Avatar  
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,592
Joni has a reputation beyond reputeJoni has a reputation beyond reputeJoni has a reputation beyond reputeJoni has a reputation beyond reputeJoni has a reputation beyond reputeJoni has a reputation beyond reputeJoni has a reputation beyond reputeJoni has a reputation beyond reputeJoni has a reputation beyond reputeJoni has a reputation beyond reputeJoni has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Proper Fly Rod balance

I know I passed on several older bamboo rods because they are tip heavy. Adding a heavier reel is certainly an option and one I took on my 12' spey, but on a rod I will be casting many times, I prefer the weight more to the butt or a dead center of the cork.
Like a metronome.

For me, if the rod tip is heavy, it feels more like trying to cast line with allot of split shot on it....it is hard to stop on the back cast, thus using more strength. It is going to want to keep going.

Get a good center of gravity to begin with is a great starting point that is enhanced with more line at the tip. If you already have a tip heavy rod, the more line out would accent this, wouldn't it? Making it even more tiresome to lift off the water to recast?
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 01-16-2011, 02:18 PM
dave5977's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 206
dave5977 has a spectacular aura aboutdave5977 has a spectacular aura aboutdave5977 has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: Proper Fly Rod balance

I have always felt that having a balanced set up would help form the line loop on the forward and backcast equally. Stopping the inertia on a balanced rod is something that I didn't thik of. But it makes sense to me. I'm still trying to understand what "swing weight" is. Thanks Mojo for the web link with more info.
__________________
There never seems to be enough time to do the things you want to do once you find them.
-Jim Croce-
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 01-16-2011, 02:26 PM
FrankB2's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Southeast Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,760
FrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Proper Fly Rod balance

I'm in agreement with Mojo on this. Like I said, I have a fast action 9' 5wt, and it really strained a chronic injury in my right shoulder. After putting a heavy reel on, it was suddenly transformed into a shoulder friendly rod.

I agree with Mojo about the bamboo. Looks sweet!
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 01-16-2011, 04:29 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 112
304rodco has a spectacular aura about304rodco has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: Proper Fly Rod balance

I wasn't really talking about the weight of the line, but the force of the cast. The force of 30' of line in the air is going to pull at the tip of the rod, not at the grip. The rod will then flex however much it is going to (add the inertia of the rod weight in there too). The less flex in the tip the more you are going to feel it in the grip. At least that is how it works in my mind.

Of course, like you said, if there is a lot of flex then that is going to take more force to change directions. There is a whole lot of dynamics going on.

---------- Post added at 04:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:08 PM ----------

Thanks for the compliments
__________________
Lee Orr - Maker
304 Rod Company

www.304rodcompany.com
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Proper Tipping for Guides? ss308 General Discussion 10 08-03-2010 11:12 AM
Choosing Proper Fly is Key to Success Fish Bones Coldwater Articles 0 07-19-2007 10:31 AM













All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
2005-2014 The North American Fly Fishing Forum. All rights reserved.