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grousehunter49 05-26-2009 01:56 PM

Spline
 
I understand that the spline side of a rod is the side that bends the most, now where should the spline be? top or bottom. Thank you.

Hardyreels 05-26-2009 03:16 PM

Re: Spline
 
Top, if I remember correctly.

FrankB2 05-26-2009 06:49 PM

Re: Spline
 
I thought that the spline was the stiffer side, and hence went on top.
Some maker's forums say it makes no difference in any case. I dunno.....

Rip Tide 05-26-2009 07:09 PM

Re: Spline
 
From the Hook&Hackle website.
Quote:

Q. Do I have to put the guides on the belly of the rod or can I mount them on the spine?

A.This is a question often discussed by rod builders. Some feel very strongly about their method of guide placement. One thing is for sure the guides must be placed on the spine or the belly or else the finished rod will exhibit "sideways" torque. The spine results from a number of vectors in the rod blank. If the guides are placed on one side or the other of the spine, the vectors will be front to back or vice versa. If they guides are offset, the resulting vectors will be too. During casting one feels the result as the casting hand tends to turn in or out during the back and forth motion. This gives rise to a number of casting problems. One school of thought suggests that lighter weight rods have the guides placed on the belly (2 thru 6 weight lines) and heavier weight rods (7-13) have the guides placed on the spine for more efficient casting or retrieval of that particular line weight.

ezamora 05-26-2009 11:48 PM

Re: Spline
 
actually, "spline" is an incorrect term for graphite rods. it applies to bamboo rods (among other non-fly things) which use slats of bamboo to construct the blank. in the graphite and fiberglass world, it's called the spine. or effective spine.

there are at least three views to the spine concept when affixing guides. two have opposing 90 degree views and the third says don't worry about it. there is NO twist because of the guide placement in relation to the spine. it's up to you to decide what you want to do of course and if you settle on one method, it's doubtful you'll notice any difference unless you develop tests on all three methods. and from what i read, you'll see there's not much difference.

most who make a big deal about it have garnered their education from long held beliefs. and those can be inaccurate. probably the most up to date info can be found here:

Untitled

for what it's worth... when i started, i pulled my hair out at this beginning step and decided to wrap guides for fly rods on the effective spine. now (like several major rod companies from what i read), i simply wrap on the straightest axis.

eric
fresno, ca.

grousehunter49 05-27-2009 08:03 AM

Re: Spine
 
Yes spine is the correct term, sorry about that,I think the stiff side should be on the top for casting out and double haulen,I think you get more distance.

swirlchaser 05-27-2009 09:47 AM

Re: Spline
 
In my rod building experience the spine has very little effect on the performace of a fly rod. When I build my offshore rods I'm very carefull about placing the guides on the spine, especially when building on fiberglass. I have seen standup up rods twist when a 100+lb tuna lays on it but that type of torque is rarely seen on a fly or inshore rod.

grousehunter49 05-27-2009 11:50 AM

Re: Spline
 
I was told that Sage don.t spine there rods , I wonder is this true, or just gossip, I have a lot of respect for Sage rods.

ezamora 05-28-2009 02:21 AM

Re: Spline
 
i've heard the same thing about sage BUT if you really want to know, send them an email or call them. they have been very helpful in the past for outlining standard thread colors and other things when i built on their blanks.

when fishing for a 100lb tuna with standup rods... are these rods used with guides located on the top? wouldn't any rod with guides on the top twist a bit with considerable load and so, depending on many factors including an anglers skill, location of reel used and other variables, these might attribute to the twist? hold a rod straight out, down a bit or up at an angle. any considerable load (big fish) pulling from below you (in the water) is going to have that affect. the line pulling through the guides will want to move towards the bottom of the rod. isn't there a somewhat recent development by west coast anglers to "acid rod" guide placement to negate "twist"?

read this interesting article (sorry it may seem like an ad but it shows one interesting perspective to rod twist. not once do they mention the spine) grousehunter's mention of fiberglass seems interesting.

What's an Acid Rod?

it seems to me the idea of locating guides on the "correct" spine is a bit of marketing genius. what a great thing to sell to a prospective customer. but i think it's a disservice to those who fish. i still think building on a spine is not necessary. if it makes you feel better to build on a spine read up on the ideas (there are a couple out there) and use one.

for me, once a blank is assembled i'll sight down it. i generally only wrap fly rods from 3wt-7wt. usually the tip is where you might discern a slight bend due to manufacturing processes, if at all. i turn the tip section so that it bends up if that situation exists (we're talking about a slight bend, if it's more, the blank should go back to where it came). the weight of the guides and a line through them when fishing will naturally pull the tip down in a straightening effect. accuracy in casting comes from skill. i leave it at that. i only build for myself, friends and the occasional new friend interested in a rod. if i did it for a living, i would do it the same way until hard scientific fact showed otherwise. but from what i've read, that has yet to surface. even those who have written how-to books on rod building have changed their stance regarding the "need" for locating guides on the spine.

eric
fresno, ca.

swirlchaser 05-29-2009 06:29 AM

Re: Spline
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ezamora (Post 61202)
i've heard the same thing about sage BUT if you really want to know, send them an email or call them. they have been very helpful in the past for outlining standard thread colors and other things when i built on their blanks.

when fishing for a 100lb tuna with standup rods... are these rods used with guides located on the top? wouldn't any rod with guides on the top twist a bit with considerable load and so, depending on many factors including an anglers skill, location of reel used and other variables, these might attribute to the twist? hold a rod straight out, down a bit or up at an angle. any considerable load (big fish) pulling from below you (in the water) is going to have that affect. the line pulling through the guides will want to move towards the bottom of the rod. isn't there a somewhat recent development by west coast anglers to "acid rod" guide placement to negate "twist"?

read this interesting article (sorry it may seem like an ad but it shows one interesting perspective to rod twist. not once do they mention the spine) grousehunter's mention of fiberglass seems interesting.

What's an Acid Rod?

it seems to me the idea of locating guides on the "correct" spine is a bit of marketing genius. what a great thing to sell to a prospective customer. but i think it's a disservice to those who fish. i still think building on a spine is not necessary. if it makes you feel better to build on a spine read up on the ideas (there are a couple out there) and use one.

for me, once a blank is assembled i'll sight down it. i generally only wrap fly rods from 3wt-7wt. usually the tip is where you might discern a slight bend due to manufacturing processes, if at all. i turn the tip section so that it bends up if that situation exists (we're talking about a slight bend, if it's more, the blank should go back to where it came). the weight of the guides and a line through them when fishing will naturally pull the tip down in a straightening effect. accuracy in casting comes from skill. i leave it at that. i only build for myself, friends and the occasional new friend interested in a rod. if i did it for a living, i would do it the same way until hard scientific fact showed otherwise. but from what i've read, that has yet to surface. even those who have written how-to books on rod building have changed their stance regarding the "need" for locating guides on the spine.

eric
fresno, ca.

Stand up rods are build with a gimble instead of a butt cap. Its basically a metal butt cap with two perpedicular notches cut into it. These notches fit into the pin on your fighting belt. Once the butt of the rod is locked into the belt the torque from a rod built off spine is more noticeable. But again this is a one piece, 30-50lb class blank with a heavy load placed on it. I doubt that you would notice if it was a 4pc. flyrod


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