The North American Fly Fishing Forum


Go Back   The North American Fly Fishing Forum > General Fly Fishing Discussion > General Discussion

General Discussion General discussions regarding fly fishing as a whole. Ask questions. Get answers...

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2009, 05:47 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Colorado's Western Slope
Posts: 329
racine is a jewel in the roughracine is a jewel in the roughracine is a jewel in the roughracine is a jewel in the rough
Question Overhead Rod position fighting trout

I'm curious why some freshwater guides tell you to hold your rod over your head. I must have missed this lecture in trout 101 but could someone enlighten me as to the logic or rational for this practice and if it is still practical? I for one usually fish with medium-medium/fast rods in the 3,4,5 wt class.
Thanks,
Racine
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2009, 10:48 PM
mtflyfishguide's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Missoula, MT, (406)240-1696
Posts: 67
mtflyfishguide will become famous soon enough
Send a message via Yahoo to mtflyfishguide
Default Re: Overhead Rod position fighting trout

I like to hold the rod lower, strip line drop line, point rod at fly low with elbow tucked in. When you cast I like the rod in tight bending at the elbow
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2009, 08:53 AM
BigCliff's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: South Texas
Posts: 4,313
BigCliff has a brilliant futureBigCliff has a brilliant futureBigCliff has a brilliant futureBigCliff has a brilliant futureBigCliff has a brilliant futureBigCliff has a brilliant futureBigCliff has a brilliant futureBigCliff has a brilliant futureBigCliff has a brilliant futureBigCliff has a brilliant futureBigCliff has a brilliant future
Default Re: Overhead Rod position fighting trout

Its both good and bad.

I think fighting fish with side pressure is more effective at wearing them out and pulling them out of cover. But it also requires one to be seeing into the water at what obstructions are there in order to avoid pulling your line or fish into/onto/through them.

Holding the rod overhead in the "Orvis Pose" (Geez, I never find an image that illustrates my point this well)
Click the image to open in full size.
may not wear fish out as well, but its probably least likely to cause the line to rub/catch on boulders, sunken tree limbs, and other miscellaneous schmutz. I would guess that quite alot of fishing guides assume that their clients are better endowed with disposable income than fishing skill and experience and coach them accordingly. Pointing the rod tip skyward is probably the fighting technique least likely to add hassle or disappointment to their day.
__________________
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._1276302_n.jpg

I'd rather hunt fish than bait deer any day.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2009, 11:21 AM
jpbfly's Avatar
Super Moderator

 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Languedoc/near montpellier
Posts: 5,117
Blog Entries: 5
jpbfly has a reputation beyond reputejpbfly has a reputation beyond reputejpbfly has a reputation beyond reputejpbfly has a reputation beyond reputejpbfly has a reputation beyond reputejpbfly has a reputation beyond reputejpbfly has a reputation beyond reputejpbfly has a reputation beyond reputejpbfly has a reputation beyond reputejpbfly has a reputation beyond reputejpbfly has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Overhead Rod position fighting trout

I agree with Big(which happens more often than I thought)and often use this technique but in some cases with a big fish in a deeper and wider stream the line may help the drag to slow down the fish(hope my explanation is clear)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Sans titre113ddd.jpg (95.9 KB, 116 views)
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2009, 06:11 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Colorado's Western Slope
Posts: 329
racine is a jewel in the roughracine is a jewel in the roughracine is a jewel in the roughracine is a jewel in the rough
Default Re: Overhead Rod position fighting trout

Big Cliff, excuse me for not seeing the obvious here but what exactly is the logic? Does it save fine tippets, save your rod tip or is avoiding hidden obstacles the main reason? I personally believe in sideways constant pressure helps exhaust the fish properly( one sided that allows revival) which is what I use but I've had guides mention this high rod position without rational. For salt water you actually hold the rod at a 45 degree angle to put more pressure on fish(heavier tippets). Inquiring minds want to know?
BTW, thanks for all the replies fellas...
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2009, 07:59 PM
Frank Whiton's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 5,301
Frank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Skype™ to Frank Whiton
Default Re: Overhead Rod position fighting trout

Hi Racine,

There are times that raising the rod tip helps to lessen the line in the water so it doesn't hang up. It may also help to keep the fish from diving into weeds. I almost always use the side pressure method switching from side to side according to what direction the fish is headed. You always want the fish to go the opposite direction that it wants to go.

In Saltwater fishing flats with coral, rocks or oysters you need to keep the fish from scrapping the fly line across the obstructions. Again it is just useful in certain cases.

Frank
__________________
Click the image to open in full size.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2009, 08:21 PM
Pocono's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Merrimac, MA
Posts: 3,997
Pocono has a reputation beyond reputePocono has a reputation beyond reputePocono has a reputation beyond reputePocono has a reputation beyond reputePocono has a reputation beyond reputePocono has a reputation beyond reputePocono has a reputation beyond reputePocono has a reputation beyond reputePocono has a reputation beyond reputePocono has a reputation beyond reputePocono has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Overhead Rod position fighting trout

Quote:
Originally Posted by racine View Post
I'm curious why some freshwater guides tell you to hold your rod over your head. I must have missed this lecture in trout 101 but could someone enlighten me as to the logic or rational for this practice and if it is still practical? I for one usually fish with medium-medium/fast rods in the 3,4,5 wt class.
Thanks,
Racine
Are you talking about holding the rod over your head while you're waiting for a strike or once you've hooked a fish?

If the former, then I agree with Frank that holding the rod high will get more line off the water and if you're line is cast out across water travelling at different speeds (seams); which is common in freshwater stream fishing, then it will help you to get a good dead drift, if that's your goal, and will also reduce the need for mending.

If the latter, then I think that the rationale for holding the rod vertically (perhaps not over the head) is to maximize the flex in the rod (and therefore maximize the protection of the leader/tippet); as well as to minimize contact with obstructions, as BigCliff says.

The flex point is a simple one. If you hook a fish and try to retrieve it with the rod pointed at the fish or in a horizontal position, then you're putting all of the stain of the fish on the leader/tippet. If you hold the rod vertically, then you're maximizing the flex characteristics of the rod and putting the strain of the fish mostly on the rod itself; very little on the leader/tippet.

If you try to break the end of a leader or a piece of tippet by pulling it between you hands, you'll find that it take a lot of pulling strength to break it when if you apply even pressure and simply increase the pull (which should give you confidence in landing large fish on small diameter tippet). However, if you jerk them apart, they'll break much easier. It's the same with a fish on the line. If the fish is able to jerk the line; meaning that you don't have the rod positioned to absorb the motion of the fish, then he'll break you off. But, if you keep the tension on the fish more or less equal (meaning that you're using the rod flex to maintain that even tension), then you'll seldomly get a break-off; at least in my experience. In this case, think of the flex charasteristics of the rod as a shock absorber; it's protecting the leader/tippet from the shock of the fighting fish.

By the way, if you decide to run the "pull the end of the leader / tippet apart" experiment, be sure that you're wearing a good pair of heavy gloves, otherwise you'll also be running an experiment on the toughness of the skin on the underside of your fingers.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2009, 12:40 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Colorado's Western Slope
Posts: 329
racine is a jewel in the roughracine is a jewel in the roughracine is a jewel in the roughracine is a jewel in the rough
Default Re: Overhead Rod position fighting trout

Pocono, I was referring to the second scenario. You give a good explanation and one which I surmised but wondered about other possible reasons. Fighting a fish with the rod low puts maximum pressure with the rods butt section and most tension on the line and fish. Fighting with the rod high puts minimum pressure on the line but helps with the shock absorption on finer tippets. Of course when you raise the rod further above your head you increase the shock absorption by adding your arms, wrists and elbows to that leverage. Thanks for elaborating.
Racine
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2009, 12:46 PM
jpbfly's Avatar
Super Moderator

 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Languedoc/near montpellier
Posts: 5,117
Blog Entries: 5
jpbfly has a reputation beyond reputejpbfly has a reputation beyond reputejpbfly has a reputation beyond reputejpbfly has a reputation beyond reputejpbfly has a reputation beyond reputejpbfly has a reputation beyond reputejpbfly has a reputation beyond reputejpbfly has a reputation beyond reputejpbfly has a reputation beyond reputejpbfly has a reputation beyond reputejpbfly has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Overhead Rod position fighting trout

Quote:
Originally Posted by racine View Post
Pocono, I was referring to the second scenario. You give a good explanation and one which I surmised but wondered about other possible reasons. Fighting a fish with the rod low puts maximum pressure with the rods butt section and most tension on the line and fish. Fighting with the rod high puts minimum pressure on the line but helps with the shock absorption on finer tippets. Of course when you raise the rod further above your head you increase the shock absorption by adding your arms, wrists and elbows to that leverage. Thanks for elaborating.
Racine
You're right great explanation fom Pocono...as usual
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2009, 03:47 PM
Steelhead Junkie's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 211
Steelhead Junkie will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Overhead Rod position fighting trout

I almost never hold the rod in the Orvis pose. Fish tend to jump more when the rod is held high. I like keepin' the rod at a 45* angle to my body, either to the right or left of me depending whta the fish in doin'. With shorter rods, or when using conventional gear, you can even plunge the rod tip into the wter to keep the fish from jumping. This especially useful when fishing for bass, as they tend to like to jump. Watching them jump is fun, and if its a smaller fish I love letting it jump all over, but it also alows slack in the line and lends the fish a chance to come down on the leader. Lost my first bass hoook-up of '09, a fish close to 17" by horsing the fish and pulling almost straight up on it, causing it to jump. When it came down the hook popped free and I was left with a slightly mangled bugger.
__________________
I like organic chicken..... The kind with the capes still on 'em
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My new float tube!! tgoodwater2002 Warmwater Fly Fishing 9 06-14-2009 09:12 PM
How do I tye a UPSALQUITCH SPECIAL Frank Whiton Share Patterns 0 02-27-2008 05:15 PM
Yellowstone changes fishing regulations JBinUTAH Rocky Mountain Range 0 04-27-2006 03:18 PM
Going to Lake Pleasant on Thursday! fshfanatic General Discussion 0 01-01-2006 06:05 PM
Welcome, lvs2fsh! Fish Bones Member Introductions 0 05-16-2005 06:27 PM













All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
2005-2014 The North American Fly Fishing Forum. All rights reserved.