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Old 08-18-2009, 04:48 PM
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Default Jason Borger Knotted Leaders..NICE!

I read an article by Jason Borger, and he mentioned his knotted leader
fornula:
4' .019"
1' .013
4' .010
3-4' 3X-5X

I tied a few up in 3X and 4X, but didn't use them until yesterday. I've never
used a leader of 9 feet, whether it be my own knotted leaders or knotless.
Frankly, I didn't think they'd be much fun! I tied on a #12 foam beetle/hopper/spider thingy I've been tying lately, and the leader turned it
over beautifully. I was using an 8.5' 4wt, with 4wt GPX line. It was sort of
weird seeing such a large distance between the fly and the fly line at first,
but that changed quickly. The best thing is that I only have to tie 4 sections!
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Old 08-19-2009, 08:00 AM
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Default Re: Jason Borger Knotted Leaders..NICE!

His Dad Gary came up with that leader system, and it works great...I use it for just about all my fishing.

Dan
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Old 08-19-2009, 10:59 AM
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Default Re: Jason Borger Knotted Leaders..NICE!

Hi Frank and Dan,

Here are a couple of thoughts I have about the recipe for that leader.

That looks to be a 11' to 13' leader according how much tippet you use. Going from .019 to .013 is a bit more jump than what I would use. Using a 5X tippet would be a big jump from .010 to .006. I can see it working with a 3X tippet but that would be a .010 to .008 transition. I wonder what knots you are using to connect the sections together?

It has been years since I have tied my own leaders but the guidelines back then was to not have more than a .002, give or take a pinch, difference between the sections of mono. I have never cast the Borger leader but it seems like it could have some hinging. With a 3'/4' foot 5X tippet I think it would be hard to get a good delivery. A 12'/13' foot leader has to have things pretty well laid out to get a good turn over.

Of course if you guys are using leaders made on this formula and they work great for you, then that pretty well beats my theories. I just thought it may give some problems if you followed the recipe exactly.

Frank
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Old 08-19-2009, 11:08 AM
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Default Re: Jason Borger Knotted Leaders..NICE!

Hi Frank,
I always read that one shouldn't make big jumps in diameters, and was
surprised to see the Borger formula. I used blood knots on the first 3 sections,
and a surgeon's knot for the tippet. It turns over great, and can be cast
without any fly line out. Actually, I test my knotted leaders by waving them
around by hand.

It should be noted that Jason Borger uses a perfection loop to attach the
tippet to the leader. I finally tied up a 9' leader a perfection loop tippet
last night, but haven't had the chance to fish it yet.
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Old 08-19-2009, 11:15 AM
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Default Re: Jason Borger Knotted Leaders..NICE!

Hi Frank,

That big change in diameter was because of the blood knot. Too large of diameter difference reduces the knot strength due to slippage.

Frank
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Old 08-20-2009, 09:09 AM
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Default Re: Jason Borger Knotted Leaders..NICE!

You can use a double surgeons knot, it holds very well when you have a big difference in leader size.

Dan
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Old 08-20-2009, 11:33 AM
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Default Re: Jason Borger Knotted Leaders..NICE!

I tied a few 4 section 8' leaders last weekend, and used double surgeon's knots. I always give the large diameter sections a large tug to test
them, and none of the long length leaders failed....
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Old 08-25-2009, 12:46 PM
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Default Re: Jason Borger Knotted Leaders..NICE!

I'm not sure I understand.Is the 1 foot section in the middle of two 4' sections? I tie all my own leaders and never have little short pieces in the middle. Why would it need a 1' piece in the middle? When I use a 9' rod I make my leaders out of three 36" pieces blood knotted together with a perfection loop on the big end. When I use my spey rod (fifteen footer) I go 54", 54", 36" and 36". The last section either way is the class tippet. A longer leader is good for getting deeper with things like clousers, and Borgers system comes out at 11 or 12 feet long. If I was going to make a 12' er I would go 4 3'ers or two 4'ers and two 2' ers.
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Old 08-25-2009, 01:04 PM
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Default Re: Jason Borger Knotted Leaders..NICE!

Here's the Borger article link: http://www.flyfisherman.com/skills/jbleaders/
I thought the short section was odd, but it works well. He has one leader
formula in that article that begins with a 1 foot butt section :

The dry fly leaders that follow are built a bit differently than Harvey's (they use fewer segments), but the theory is the same. For size 10 through 14 flies, for example, a leader might be built with 1 foot of .017", 4 feet of .013", 1 foot of .010", and 4 feet of 4X (Figure 2). A dry fly leader to fish size 20 and smaller dries, for example, might use 1 foot of .017", 1 foot of .013", 4 feet of .010", 4 feet of 4X, and 1 foot of 6X or 7X (Figure 3).

Jason mentions using a 1 foot section of tippet above, and that's something I've been doing lately when fishing 4X leaders. Rather than switching
leaders, I'll tie a short section (about a foot) of 6X on if I switch to a smaller fly.
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Old 08-25-2009, 04:48 PM
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Default Re: Jason Borger Knotted Leaders..NICE!

Hi Everyone,

When people tie their own leaders there are a few things people try to accomplish. One is a leader that rolls over in a consistent roll where there is no hinging or collapsing of the leader. The leader also has to carry the size fly you are using. The leader also has to be strong at the knots so they don't fail. This is the basic performance I would want from any leader.

1. It is important that the butt of the leader is close to the same diameter as the tip of the fly line.

2. Blood knots require that the pieces of leader are not more than .002 or .003 different in diameter. Larger variations cause the Blood knot to slip.

The purpose of the 1' section of tippet material is a transitional piece so there is not a large difference in the diameters of the two pieces that are being tied together. This piece could be 6" and work just fine.

Today people seem to be tying all kinds of different combinations of leaders that work for them. Some of them seem strange to me but they work for some people. I think that the modern fly line and leader material designs allow a much wider combinations of tied leaders.

Frank
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