Furled Leader 2 or 3 Nymph rigs

[webrx]

Hi,
I have fished with nothing but furled leaders for most of the year this year and I love them (Thanks Joni), especially for dries, but I also have a Kevlar one Jone made for me to fish the nymphs.

Now, I just recently have been trying out double nymph rigs (I know, I should probably have tried this before, but it was that one pole one hook thing I learned 40 years ago from my grandpa - that's another story).

I tried something today, I tied my tippet onto the ring in my furled leader with a uni knot and left the tag end about a foot long. To the tag end I tied in a copper john #18, then, I tied on a GRHE #14 on the long piece of the tippet.

The fish tore the copper john up, didn't touch the GRHE, however, about every other fish I caught today was foul hooked. I haven't not foul hooked a fish in the river this year until today, first day with this setup.

Am I rigging this wrong? Is there a better way to rig two nymphs on a furled leader? Why was I foul hooking everything in site today (mostly just outside the jaws, but foul hooked nonetheless)?

This by the way also got me thinking about why the fish nailed the CJ and did not touch the GRHE. I am wondering if the larger GRHE at the end of the cast wasn't getting help up by the current at the end of the drift, and causing the CJ to bounce up and down. kinda like a clothesline effect.

Floating line, thingmabobber, etc on the leader
Floating or unweighted bulky fly as the point fly
Copper John with about 2 feet of tippet in the middle.
As the line finishes the drift, the bulky point fly catches more current then the skinney CJ and stretches downstream. As the GRHE reaches the end of the drift the leader straightens out causing the CJ to bounce.

Not sure this is what happened, but it seems to make sense to me.

d

[FISHN50]

Is it possible they were going after the GRHE & since the CPJ was a few inches away from it they ended up getting hooked on the CPJ outside the mouth. When I rig a 2 nymph rig I'll try to use a stiffer leader for the outside fly. I'll tie on a short length of 4X to 5 or 6X, make a Surgeons knot ,leaving the tag end of the heavier leader about 4-6" long & tie the top fly to that & the trailing fly to the 5-6X. Another way is to tie the top fly on to the tippet normally & then tie the dropper to the bend of the hook or if the fly is large enough you can tie another dropper to the hook eye. Either way works for me but occasionally I'll foul hook a fish but in the fins or back but not the head, mouth or eye.

[webrx]

Originally Posted by FISHN50

Is it possible they were going after the GRHE & since the CPJ was a few inches away from it they ended up getting hooked on the CPJ outside the mouth. When I rig a 2 nymph rig I'll try to use a stiffer leader for the outside fly. I'll tie on a short length of 4X to 5 or 6X, make a Surgeons knot ,leaving the tag end of the heavier leader about 4-6" long & tie the top fly to that & the trailing fly to the 5-6X. Another way is to tie the top fly on to the tippet normally & then tie the dropper to the bend of the hook or if the fly is large enough you can tie another dropper to the hook eye. Either way works for me but occasionally I'll foul hook a fish but in the fins or back but not the head, mouth or eye.

I'm not visualizing this very well. Let me try to explain what I think you are saying here.

tie 4x to the existing tippet with a surgeons knot tie the fly to this about 6 inches from the existing tippet. then tie on your point fly (the one on the end of the tippet). How far down the tippet do you tie in the 4x?

I tried tying to the bend of the hook, and this worked ok, but I think I am doing something wrong because I lost the point fly a couple times with fish on. I tried this with a uni knot, and an improved clinch knot. broke of fish on both, but the whole tippet was gone where I had tied it on the bend, no trace of the tippet.

So I thought that by tying the upper fly to the tag end of the tippet knot near the furled leader I could avoid having the fly slip off the hook bend. This worked as I landed several fish, all on the CJ, not one on the GRHE which makes me think they were ignoring the GRHE. When you fish double rigs, and all your fish are on the upper fly (the CJ in this example) do you then change over to a CJ on the point fly as well? Do you want the heavier fly as the upper fly or the point fly (fly on the end).

Now, I typically roll cast nymphs, so I am not sure it makes a ton of difference.

I am considering hooking up one of my Foam Caddis as an indicator and a CJ as the point fly, or, maybe using a small thingamabobber with a october caddis and a CJ. Just want to make sure I understand the setup correctly, which would be put the heavy fly on the point (end of the line)

d

[FISHN50]

I use furled leaders also. I'll tie a loop on one end of the 4X & attach it to the furled leader( I don't like metal Rings in my furled leaders). On the end of the 4X tippet I'll tie on a length of 5 or 6X about a foot long with a triple surgeons knot. I only clip the 5 or 6X tag end & leave the 4X tag end about 5-6 inches long & tie a fly to that. This gives me a slightly heavier line on the top fly. I tie the next fly on the 5-or 6X tippet length about 12 to 16 inches down. This separates the 2 flies by about 6 inches which I think is neccessary to avoid hooking the fish in the eye with the second fly during the fight.
If I want to add another fly I'll either tie another 8 inch or so length of tippet to either the bend of the hook ( it don't stay on if you use completly barbless hooks, in that case I'll tie the tippet to the eye of the second fly, There's usually enough room in the eye to get it thru). I'll tie on the 3rd fly to that tippet.
Another way I use when fishing wet flies is to tie to the tag end all down the line. Tie on the first fly on the tag end as above & tie another peice of tippet to that tippet using another tripple surgeons knot with another 6-8inch tag end. Tie the second wet to that tag end & the bottom fly to the end of that tippet. Casting is a problem with the 3 fly rig, especially if you use an indicator so you have to be careful.
I will usually put the heavy fly on the bottom of the setup & since I fish close to the bottom I usually lose some flies, ?That;s why I think the best thing to do is to put your lightest test tippet on the bottom. If possible I avoid using splitshot & opt for the tungsten putty, a noodle of that above the bottom fly seems not to catch bottom as often.
I hope this clears up what I said in the previous post

[webrx]

Got it - Thanks. I was using 4lb flouro tied to the micro ring in my furled leader, and attaching both flies to that, about 12 inches apart - one on the tag and one on the end of the tippet. The upper fly sometimes would wrap around the tippet to the lower one, and like I said, I was getting some foul hooks. I will try using two different sizes of tippet and see if that helps.

Thanks again,

Dave