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Old 12-26-2009, 11:26 AM
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Default Scadden Frameless v. Water Master

For about a year now I have been trying to decide on some form of personal watercraft. Like many, when I started my research I was looking for one that would meet all my needs. I soon learned there is no such thing as a single personal watercraft that would meet every criteria. I would get to a point that I would think I had finally made a decision and I would see a new post or advertisement about another boat and I would be right back at the beginning.

The boat that I am looking for is to be used on small stillwaters (anywhere from an acre pond to 50 acre lakes) and small slow rivers (Class I). Basically I want to be able to do more than just fish from the bank. If I want to fish large waters I will go with a bigger boat. I am looking for portability and ease of storage. I am also a big guy (6'2" & 255) and want stability and and high weight capacity.

I have liked the Water Master since I first saw it used on one of the Trout Bum Diary videos. I will also include the Water Strider and Wilderness EXP in this same category. I have also liked the looks of the Scadden lineup. I have been really intrigued by the standing platform on those. However, I recently saw the new additions to the lineup in the Outlaw series of frameless boats. I really like the looks of those. I would love to get something like a Spring Creek pram for the small stillwaters, but there just aren't any down in my neck of the woods (Texas) and it would add to the cost significantly to get one shipped or drive up there to pick one up.

I have basically narrowed it down to the Water Master or the new Outlaw boats from Scadden. Can anyone shed some light on the pros and cons of one versus the other? Experiences, etc... Thanks!
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Old 12-26-2009, 12:55 PM
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Default Re: Scadden Frameless v. Water Master

Sadly I do not know anything personally about the two you have mentioned. I do own a Fish Cat Cougar one man pontoon boat and can tell you they are one tough watercraft. They also have a little motor transom in the back that is very sturdy. The toons each have two air chambers and they are very rugged. I use it as my loaner boat on float trips and have had people your size and weight use it with no problems.
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Old 12-26-2009, 02:14 PM
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Default Re: Scadden Frameless v. Water Master

Hi txbevo,

If you have your heart set on a pram have you considered buying a kit and making your own? It doesn't take a lot of skill or complected tools. You can buy complete kits, just hardware kits or just plans. With a kit the wood comes precut and it is a straight assembly job. You do need to cover with fiberglass but even that is not too difficult. If you are handy you can buy the plans and get your wood locally. That would cut down on the shipping.

Here are photos of two pram kit boats. The clear finish makes a dandy looking boat for fly fishing. Just something for you to consider. I would have no problem taking the top boat in a river like you are talking about.

Frank


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Old 12-26-2009, 03:44 PM
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Default Re: Scadden Frameless v. Water Master

I can comment on the Outlaw, as We own two of them. The Water Master has been around for a long time and from what I hear, well made. Never owned one, just read about them.

What I can tell you is I can basically turn my frame around on my Outlaw, but I prefer the open front..which is one reason the Water Master never entered my interest.

I like landing the fish in front as to the side, and I like the ease of walking out and in.

The Outlaws are Bladderless and very heavy duty material. Very large and nice side bags that even double as an ice chest.
I won't mention the frame as it sounds like you are more interested in the FRAMELESS.
2010 Dave is introducing a bunch more in a bunch of different sizes.

My vote was hands down...NFO.....for me and the hubby.
Oh and a plus on the two Outlaw X5.....we can put both frames on one pontoon.
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Old 12-26-2009, 10:01 PM
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Default Re: Scadden Frameless v. Water Master

txbevo: You might look on Dave Scadden's web site and see if he will be showing in your area. He shows his boats at the Denver Fly Fishing show in Jan. If you could get a first hand look to see how rugged his boats are built you would see what Joni is talking about.

Larry
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Old 12-27-2009, 08:22 PM
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Default Re: Scadden Frameless v. Water Master

Quote:
Originally Posted by txbevo View Post
For about a year now I have been trying to decide on some form of personal watercraft. Like many, when I started my research I was looking for one that would meet all my needs. I soon learned there is no such thing as a single personal watercraft that would meet every criteria. I would get to a point that I would think I had finally made a decision and I would see a new post or advertisement about another boat and I would be right back at the beginning.

The boat that I am looking for is to be used on small stillwaters (anywhere from an acre pond to 50 acre lakes) and small slow rivers (Class I). Basically I want to be able to do more than just fish from the bank. If I want to fish large waters I will go with a bigger boat. I am looking for portability and ease of storage. I am also a big guy (6'2" & 255) and want stability and and high weight capacity.

I have liked the Water Master since I first saw it used on one of the Trout Bum Diary videos. I will also include the Water Strider and Wilderness EXP in this same category. I have also liked the looks of the Scadden lineup. I have been really intrigued by the standing platform on those. However, I recently saw the new additions to the lineup in the Outlaw series of frameless boats. I really like the looks of those. I would love to get something like a Spring Creek pram for the small stillwaters, but there just aren't any down in my neck of the woods (Texas) and it would add to the cost significantly to get one shipped or drive up there to pick one up.

I have basically narrowed it down to the Water Master or the new Outlaw boats from Scadden. Can anyone shed some light on the pros and cons of one versus the other? Experiences, etc... Thanks!
Here's the X5 framed boat. I'm 6'2 and 230
Click the image to open in full size.

Wanna go lightweight? Don't put on the rear deck.
Click the image to open in full size.
I like the stability of it. It has a larger footprint than a WM. I like the open front. It is rated to class V whitewater, I like the ability to 'Zodiac' it if I want (Joni mentioned reversing the frame). With an add on (beefing up the rear deck), you can put up to an 8 hp motor on it.
WM is a lot lighter, but lightweight is for girly men anyway.
The advantage of the Outlaw and WM over the Spring Creek Pram is the portability. Plus the pram doesn't look that stable. I've been at Henry's Lake, Strawberry and others lakes when one of their normal (???) storms comes up and never been remotely scared. With a pram, one wave over the bow looks like it would put it under.
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