The North American Fly Fishing Forum


Go Back   The North American Fly Fishing Forum > General Fly Fishing Discussion > General Discussion

General Discussion General discussions regarding fly fishing as a whole. Ask questions. Get answers...

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2010, 06:09 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: SE Idaho
Posts: 84
drnihili is on a distinguished road
Default 4 or 5

So how much difference is there between a 4 and a 5 for trout? Let me put it this way. If I get a 4wt, what kinds of circumstances will make be wish I had a 5?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2010, 06:16 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Dayton, NV
Posts: 196
simmons_j_m is on a distinguished road
Default Re: 4 or 5

I don't have an answer for you, but I was just going to post the same thing between the 3 and 5 wt rods... I guess I'll be watching this thread as well!
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2010, 06:30 PM
MoscaPescador's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Northern California
Posts: 3,727
Blog Entries: 4
MoscaPescador has a reputation beyond reputeMoscaPescador has a reputation beyond reputeMoscaPescador has a reputation beyond reputeMoscaPescador has a reputation beyond reputeMoscaPescador has a reputation beyond reputeMoscaPescador has a reputation beyond reputeMoscaPescador has a reputation beyond reputeMoscaPescador has a reputation beyond reputeMoscaPescador has a reputation beyond reputeMoscaPescador has a reputation beyond reputeMoscaPescador has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: 4 or 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by drnihili View Post
So how much difference is there between a 4 and a 5 for trout? Let me put it this way. If I get a 4wt, what kinds of circumstances will make be wish I had a 5?
- Wind
- Casting larger flies
- Fighting larger fish
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2010, 06:33 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: SE Idaho
Posts: 84
drnihili is on a distinguished road
Default Re: 4 or 5

So, assuming at most a light wind, how big a fly or fish would leave me wishing I had a 5?
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2010, 06:46 PM
Guest1's Avatar
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Lake of the Woods/Rainy River Minnesota Canada border
Posts: 4,752
Guest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: 4 or 5

Depending on the maker of the rods, as little as none and as much as the 4 being heavier than the 5. If all rods were rated exactly in the middle of the range for each weight, the difference in what it takes to load the rods is 17 grains or so. That is about the weight of a bit less than 7 pennies. If you put 7 pennies in your hand you can see the amount required to load both rods is not far apart. Now that is if the makers have the rods rated right, and are both in the middle of the rating range. I promise that there is very little chance of that being true. For example, a Fenwick FL-90-5F rated by Fenwick as a 5 is really a 3.7wt. and a Forcast 804-2 4wt. is really a 5.3wt. rod. So when you ask what the difference is, the answer depends on a lot of variables. Who makes the rods? What models are they? In a perfect world, the difference is, it would take a line with a head 17 grains heavier to load the 5wt. than the 4wt. rod. Not a lot of difference, but the 5 would be a bit better with a bigger fly and a bit more wind. Now ask me about the lines, and the monkey business going on there.

Here is a link to a chart where some rods have been tested to see what they should be rated at. The true rating is under ERN.
http://www.superbob.org/CC_Data.htm
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2010, 06:51 PM
MoscaPescador's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Northern California
Posts: 3,727
Blog Entries: 4
MoscaPescador has a reputation beyond reputeMoscaPescador has a reputation beyond reputeMoscaPescador has a reputation beyond reputeMoscaPescador has a reputation beyond reputeMoscaPescador has a reputation beyond reputeMoscaPescador has a reputation beyond reputeMoscaPescador has a reputation beyond reputeMoscaPescador has a reputation beyond reputeMoscaPescador has a reputation beyond reputeMoscaPescador has a reputation beyond reputeMoscaPescador has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: 4 or 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by drnihili View Post
So, assuming at most a light wind, how big a fly or fish would leave me wishing I had a 5?
- It could be a #10 deer hair headed muddler. Think wind resistance.

- It could be a #10 Slumpbuster streamer that is wrapped with 10 wraps of .020" lead and a matching tungsten conehead. It gets worse when the pine squirl zonker body and tail get soaked.

- The reality is that you have to consider what materials are being used on the fly. I can throw out a #6 Chernobyl Ant with my 4 weight. I can't throw out a #6 Kaufmann's Stimulator as well because all of that deerhair. To me, a 4 weight is more of a presentation rod and a 5 weight is a do-it-all rod.

MP
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2010, 06:58 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: SE Idaho
Posts: 84
drnihili is on a distinguished road
Default Re: 4 or 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diver Dan View Post
Here is a link to a chart where some rods have been tested to see what they should be rated at. The true rating is under ERN.
http://www.superbob.org/CC_Data.htm
Excellent!

Any idea what a March Brown 4wt might rate at? I don't see it on the list, and google seems to be of no help.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2010, 07:29 PM
Guest1's Avatar
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Lake of the Woods/Rainy River Minnesota Canada border
Posts: 4,752
Guest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: 4 or 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by drnihili View Post
Excellent!

Any idea what a March Brown 4wt might rate at? I don't see it on the list, and google seems to be of no help.
Do you have a place you can get a hold of one for a few minutes? If so, take a small plastic bag and a paper clip unfolded into an S. Trap the handle of the rod to something flat, hang the platic bag from the tip with the paper clip and then measure from the tip to the floor. Divide the lenght of the rod by 3 and then add pennies to the bag till you get the tip of the rod 1/3 the length of the rod, closer to the floor. e.g. 9' rod = 3' closer to the floor. Then tell me how many pennies it took to do it.

I suggest doing this with every rod before you go buy a line.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2010, 07:36 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: SE Idaho
Posts: 84
drnihili is on a distinguished road
Default Re: 4 or 5

Hmm, don't have a way of testing the March Brown, but I'll definitely try it out on my son's Flextec 5/6. Feels more of a 6 to me, It'll be interesting to see if I'm right.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2010, 07:50 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: 208
Posts: 460
Sasha is a splendid one to beholdSasha is a splendid one to beholdSasha is a splendid one to beholdSasha is a splendid one to beholdSasha is a splendid one to beholdSasha is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: 4 or 5

Click the image to open in full size.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On














All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
2005-2014 The North American Fly Fishing Forum. All rights reserved.