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Old 03-22-2010, 02:09 PM
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Default Fishing Scenario question

Im still somewhat new to fly fishing and still learning a lot.

I was below the kaufer at a dam, and this dam had a spill way witch is called the "Kaufer". Im not clear if that is the real name but thats what they call it.

The water was somewhat murky and it was moving very fast. The sun was very bright and i assumed that the fish were sitting close to the botton because it was so bright out.

I was using a 7wt rod with a sinking tip fly line. when i would cast i would find that i was already 3/4 the way trough my drift before my line could even sink half way.

I then decided to put on some split shot but I knew I wasn't going to be able use a fly cast with this kind of weight on my line. So I just kind of over arm tossed it out into the current.

This seemed to get my line down but I felt I wasnt getting my line out far enough.

Can anyone help on what i can do differently. Is i still considered fly fishing if im using weigh such as split shot.

This is what i was fishing in: Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by flyguyvr4; 03-22-2010 at 02:27 PM.
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Old 03-22-2010, 07:53 PM
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Default Re: Fishing Scenario question

I'm no pro, but I don't have any guilty feelings using splitshot to get my offering down. I like to target oxyginated water if I have a choice and would probably be fishing below the dam, but then again I've got maybe 40 hours total lake fishing for trout. I'm not sure how much weight you put on it, but I would think a 7wt should toss a fair amount pretty far. May not be as pretty as a dry fly presentation but....

Below the dam, if its deep, I'd toss the fly into the water fall and let the flow push it down early up front. Above the dam I'd weight it and toss as far up current as possible while being as far up stream of my target as I could reach with cast distance...toss it out and let it sink....feeding line out the whole time.

Sounds to me like you were on the right track but I'm looking forward to hearing here from someone with more experience than I've got.
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Old 03-22-2010, 08:37 PM
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Default Re: Fishing Scenario question

I was fishing below the rapids there. And if your looking at the very left part of the picture there is a shallow gravel bar where you can stand almost dead center of the river so I was pretty far from shore.

I was casting my line as far as possible, but it seemed that my line was coming toward me until it would get about half way through my drift. Then the current would finally tighten my line.

Is there anyway to eliminate that?

And I must say I was getting a little discouraged because there were fish being caught all around me. I didn't want to change fishing styles because I really want to get it down with a fly rod.

I must say. Im obsessed with fly fishing, and the sentence from my dad telling me "You should get a spin casting reel and you'll catch way more fish" while hes fighting a steelhead really annoys me.

and thank you for your help futuramille
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Old 03-22-2010, 10:28 PM
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Default Re: Fishing Scenario question

Trying to learn to fly fish on your own is a tough road. I'd recommend you look around your area and see if there is a fly fishing club or maybe a Trout Unlimited chapter in your area. Check with your local fly shop to see if there are any local FF clubs. Getting someone to help you will go along way in learning the sport of fly fishing. Without that, I would recommend doing a wade trip with a local guide to have him show you how he would fish that river.
From the photo it is a little hard to see if there is any obvious structure in that river. What I like to do is fish structure. Fish like to hold in front of boulders or behind boulders or they will lay in slack areas on the edges next to a fast current, so look for seams in the current rather than just blindly casting out into the river.
When casting: One method that is very easy to master when you are using multiple flies and added weight is to let the line out and let it float downstream as it reaches the end and starts to tighten, lift the line so the line comes to the top and then just flip it upstream. This is called water loading the line. It is one method of being able to avoid the wind knots when using a multiple fly rig and/or split shot. Another method is to roll cast.

Larry
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Old 03-22-2010, 11:18 PM
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Default Re: Fishing Scenario question

Ohh jeez! It had completely slipped my mind about Trout Unlimited.It was founded in Michigan. Boy I must say I feel a little embarrassed.

Thank you for the tip Larry. I will def take this info and use it.

And as for the Clubs and Chapter, I will be definitely looking into that!

thanks again

Last edited by flyguyvr4; 03-22-2010 at 11:37 PM.
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Old 03-23-2010, 07:09 AM
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Default Re: Fishing Scenario question

Flyguy, That looks like the coffer at Tippy, minus the crowd...Fishing below the coffer is the place to be, casting your rig right into the foam below the rocks. You mentioned using a sink tip, so I will assume you are swinging streamers, toss your fly right up into the foam at the base of the rock spillway; it will push your fly down to the bottom where you want it.

I know you will be able to find a flyfishing club in your area, and if that pic is where I think it is, stop and see Ray at Schmidt Outfitters. He's a great guy and will help you with your questions; just remember to help him out by picking something up...

Dan
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Old 03-23-2010, 07:46 AM
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Default Re: Fishing Scenario question

When you put weight on, the cast becomes more and more a lob. With weight, you actually employ bad casting technique: widen the casting stroke and get a wider loop.

Don't try to power it or make a tight loop else you'll end up with wind knots or a hook in your ear.

Two other things: Be aware that it's possible to break a rod tip if you overdo the weight. Also, be sure not to let the weight hit the rod as it can cause cracks in the rod and lead to break. That looping, lob cast will help prevent this.

I use a six weight and have no problem casting 1/32 oz. crappie jigs.
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Old 03-23-2010, 10:07 AM
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Default Re: Fishing Scenario question

Flyguyvr4,

In fast water like that you'll need to add split shot to get down with a floating fly line, and may need to with a sink tip as well. You'll generally want to add enough weight to feel the shot ticking along the bottom occasionally if you're nymph fishing. Losing stuff because you get hung up once in awhile is part of the game.

You mentioned that other folks around you were catching fish--- that can be frustrating--- but try and turn it into a learning experience. Watch carefully. What are they doing differently? Often it's more a question of presentation rather than fly pattern.

Are they making long casts or short flips? In fast water like that one technique that might be effective is "short line (or tight line) nymphing" , but there are many different types of presentations. Here are some great links to articles from a site called Westfly for dry fly and wet fly presentations (a detailed discussion of different wet fly presentations is in Wetfly part 2). You’ll want to become familiar with this stuff, it will up your odds considerably.

Dry fly presentations Part 1
Dry Fly Presentations--Part 1 | Feature Article | Westfly


Dry fly Presentations Part 2
Presenting the Dry Fly--Part 2 | Feature Article | Westfly


Wet Fly Presentations Part 1
Wet Fly Presentations--Part 1 | Feature Article | Westfly


Wet Fly Presentations part 2
Wet Fly Presentations--Part 2 | Feature Article | Westfly


Here's a more in-depth article on "mending" that might help a bit. It's key to getting a natural drift (for dries and nymphs), and is one of the most important skills to have on moving water. An "upstream mend" can help your nymph or streamer sink deeper to trout holding near the bottom out of the main current: Fly Fishing, Fly Presentation, Mending - MidCurrent

You won't be able to mend the sinking portion of your sink tip, but you can mend the floating portion of your line and add a reach cast to get a longer drag-free drift.



Here's some links to search pages for Trout Unlimited Chapters:
Council-Chapter Search | Trout Unlimited - Conserving coldwater fisheries

and for clubs affiliated with the Federation of Fly Fishers
Locate a Club

Both of these groups are very welcoming to newbies and have informative meetings, group trips to local waters and casting and tying clinics. It's a great way to jump start your fly fishing career and meet a few new fishing buddies.
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Old 03-23-2010, 08:39 PM
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Default Re: Fishing Scenario question

Hey guys! Thanks again for all your help! Im reading and learning as much as possible. And your advice is like gold to me, I take it to the heart.

Dan, your are correct on the location. It is Tippy Dam, there was a pretty light crowd that day so fishing was pretty easygoing and there were no confrontations lol. I'm pleased to know that I was in the right spot and that I was using the right gear and yes I was using a streamer. Definitely looking into a Fly Fishing Club/Chapter. And Ray at the fly shop is a very knowledgeable man. He helps me out when I go into his shop, super kind and always gives me a forward answer.

Fly Fisher for Men, so should I use any weight at all? I was using 2-3 1oz split shot weights. I didn't even try to use a fly cast, instead I just over handed it, but it didn't go very far.

peregrines, I was using sink tip line along with those split shot. Is it still considered fly fishing with using weight like that? Or is it cheating? I guess what I should ask is am i doing things right? Like using sink tip line and split shot in fast moving water like that. Or is there a right way? Using floating fly line a with just a leader and a fly?

My apologies if there is some confusion.
Thanks again for everybody's help.

Im bound to figure out and make corrections.
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Old 03-23-2010, 09:15 PM
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Default Re: Fishing Scenario question

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyguyvr4 View Post

Fly Fisher for Men, so should I use any weight at all? I was using 2-3 1oz split shot weights. I didn't even try to use a fly cast, instead I just over handed it, but it didn't go very far.
Sure, just be careful with it so you don't harm the rod. Put on a a shot or two and do a little practice casting in the back yard. You'll get the hang of it very soon.
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