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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2010, 09:42 AM
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Default Re: How much for a pro build?

I'm talking about the time it takes to mail the rod, have Sage look at it, and
then ship it back. I would imagine that once they open your a package, the
process is pretty quick.

Rods built from Sage blanks are clearly marked as such: e.g. "590-B" in large
characters near the rod's logo.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2010, 10:10 AM
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Default Re: How much for a pro build?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTskibum View Post
I have broken a sage rod and it took around 2 weeks to get it back. TFO has a better turn around time though, i had a broken rod back in just over a week.
MTskibum,

Your experience is similar to mine. I have broken several TFO rods over the years and I have always received the replacement rod back in a maximum of a week including shipping time, and one was back in 6 days (shipped regular UPS on Friday and received back on Thursday).

That was why I was a bit surprised that a large outfit like Sage would take a couple of weeks to get a replacement section or a replacement rod returned.
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Old 03-25-2010, 11:47 AM
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Default Re: How much for a pro build?

I looked at the link to e bay for the Sage 490-4. He is way less than the factory rod. Here is why this is not a good thing. First of all it makes the rod factories mad. Why should they sell you a blank so you can undercut them? This makes them jack the price of the blanks up, or stop selling blanks all together. There are parts wholesalers who will stop doing business with you for selling rods less than factory price. They might not come right out and just say "not selling to you", but they will start getting backorders for half the parts and take months to get them, or slow it down till they go away. G Loomis, before they sold out to Shimano is a perfect example. First they raised the price of the blanks a lot. Then they stopped selling many of the blanks, dropping more than 50% from the blank program. Then they changed the colors of the blanks to colors you can only sell to punk rockers and color blind people. I have built rods for years, and can say with absolute certainty, that guys like this one on e-bay harm the entire rod business, both custom and factory. If Sage sees what is going on with this guy and get mad, and it would make me mad, they may do the same thing Loomis did. Then how will you like it when a Sage blank costs you a small fortune and only comes in pink? Or that lovely metal flake silver G Loomis has? One more thing, he seems to have happy customers, but if his builds are so good, how come he can't seem to get a reasonable price for his work? Guys like him hurt the entire industry.
One last thing, his rods are small factory rods built on a Sage blank. Custom rods are where the customer tells the builder exactly what he wants, and the builder then makes the rod to the customers wishes. Custom. This guy is abusing Sage and the word custom.

I just got done looking at the photos of this guys Sage, and figuring out what parts he used. I then set down and figured out the cost of the parts:
Sage 490-4 blank $345.00
Pac-Bay TiCh Stripper guides $3.27 and $3.03
Hopkins Holloway snake guides 8 @ $3.35 for a total of $26.80
Top $4.45
FG12 Modified Western grip $20.95
Strubel winding check $3.50
Strubel U24 seat with group 1 insert $56.75
Hook keeper SSKT $2.20
Refundable shipping tube for the blank $3.00
Shipping appx. $8.00
For a grand total of $476.95 in parts.

Now this guy is selling the rod for $510.00 leaving $33.05 in labor. I'm sure he's getting the parts wholesale which is where he's making some money, around $120.00, but do you see why doing business with guys like this hurts the industry? And again calling these rods "custom" is false. No reputable rod maker will undercut the source of his income. Custom rods look like this:
Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by Guest1; 03-25-2010 at 01:05 PM. Reason: add more info
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Old 03-27-2010, 05:32 PM
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Default Re: How much for a pro build?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diver Dan View Post
I looked at the link to e bay for the Sage 490-4. He is way less than the factory rod. Here is why this is not a good thing. First of all it makes the rod factories mad. Why should they sell you a blank so you can undercut them? This makes them jack the price of the blanks up, or stop selling blanks all together. There are parts wholesalers who will stop doing business with you for selling rods less than factory price. They might not come right out and just say "not selling to you", but they will start getting backorders for half the parts and take months to get them, or slow it down till they go away. G Loomis, before they sold out to Shimano is a perfect example. First they raised the price of the blanks a lot. Then they stopped selling many of the blanks, dropping more than 50% from the blank program. Then they changed the colors of the blanks to colors you can only sell to punk rockers and color blind people. I have built rods for years, and can say with absolute certainty, that guys like this one on e-bay harm the entire rod business, both custom and factory. If Sage sees what is going on with this guy and get mad, and it would make me mad, they may do the same thing Loomis did. Then how will you like it when a Sage blank costs you a small fortune and only comes in pink? Or that lovely metal flake silver G Loomis has? One more thing, he seems to have happy customers, but if his builds are so good, how come he can't seem to get a reasonable price for his work? Guys like him hurt the entire industry.
One last thing, his rods are small factory rods built on a Sage blank. Custom rods are where the customer tells the builder exactly what he wants, and the builder then makes the rod to the customers wishes. Custom. This guy is abusing Sage and the word custom.

I just got done looking at the photos of this guys Sage, and figuring out what parts he used. I then set down and figured out the cost of the parts:
Sage 490-4 blank $345.00
Pac-Bay TiCh Stripper guides $3.27 and $3.03
Hopkins Holloway snake guides 8 @ $3.35 for a total of $26.80
Top $4.45
FG12 Modified Western grip $20.95
Strubel winding check $3.50
Strubel U24 seat with group 1 insert $56.75
Hook keeper SSKT $2.20
Refundable shipping tube for the blank $3.00
Shipping appx. $8.00
For a grand total of $476.95 in parts.

Now this guy is selling the rod for $510.00 leaving $33.05 in labor. I'm sure he's getting the parts wholesale which is where he's making some money, around $120.00, but do you see why doing business with guys like this hurts the industry? And again calling these rods "custom" is false. No reputable rod maker will undercut the source of his income. Custom rods look like this:
Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.
I disagree completely. I think Sage makes more of a (%) markup on the blank end than they do on a complete rod. there are many folks out there that don't like all the bells an whistles involved with a "custom look" and just want a nice clean rod made with better parts then "factory" and with more TLC and quality. Nothing wrong with undercutting the rod manufacturer. I pesonally feel a fly rod is not a work of art but rather a tool for fishing. In fact I'd rather not be bothered all day as to "what kind of rod is that?". Some of us prefer a clean strieght forward look with no feathers and cross wraps thats all. There is a guy (builder) who has been undercutting sage for years and has a great relationship with them. Ever heard of Dave Lewis?

blanks.html

I don't have, and more importantly I don't think sage has any problems being under sold by rod builders. Sage makes alot of money selling their blanks alone.

P.S. You can tell by the detail in the ebay picturers alone that he is a top notch builder. you don't get that clean and detailed overnight!! I would have no broblem at all ordering one of his rods. And I will bet its better than any factory sage you can find. ENJOY IT IF YOU GET IT!!!!! Looks like a fine rod!

---------- Post added at 04:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:58 PM ----------

And low and behold, it looks like he has a direct account with the Sage company.....

"Grand River Rods fully warranties its custom rods; if your rod breaks, simply send it to Sage for replacement, and Sage will send the rod to me for re-wrapping in the original color scheme. Sage currently charges a $50.00 fee for warranty service (standard on both Sage factory rods and blanks). "

proof they don't have a problem being undercut.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2010, 10:39 PM
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Default Re: How much for a pro build?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickf View Post
That's why I'm afraid to purchase from eBay. When someone says he has a Sage Z Axis for sale, he might have made the rod himself....... and done a lousy job!! LOL
He isn't lying, it might be a Z Axis blank...... but it won't be great quality like a Z Axis from the factory.
I think a lot of classified forums are the same thing. A rod builder who makes rods to sell a little cheaper than the manufacturer.
Buy direct young man!! April Orvis is having a 20% off sale to preferred customers. That's a big saving on a Helios.
Ebay is ok if you take your time and watch. Look for great ratings and/or return warranty. I had a rod built from an ebay builder/seller and love the rod. Ended up having him make two more up from my wife and friend.

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