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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2010, 03:31 PM
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Default Re: Winston rods

So besides the rod being made in Asia is it still a quality rod or did it all go down the drain when it started being made in Asia. I'm hearing 2 sides to that. I also heard some comments about the st. Croix ultra how would that compare to the vapor?

---------- Post added at 01:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:06 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackd001 View Post
So besides the rod being made in Asia is it still a quality rod or did it all go down the drain when it started being made in Asia. I'm hearing 2 sides to that. I also heard some comments about the st. Croix ultra how would that compare to the vapor?
Or what about the St. Croix legend elite? Is it really that much better than the ultra?
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2010, 06:16 PM
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Default Re: Winston rods

The Legend Ultra is a fine rod. I've owned a couple, but sold them when the "I have too many 5wt's" realization hit me (it hits everyone eventually ). It's well-built, and would be a nice rod for almost anyone that likes medium fast rods. I actually sold almost all of my 5wt rods after deciding that 4 and 6wts would do fine. I've since partially restored my 5wt collection. The Elite is faster, and might be something that you'd want to try before buying.

Whether or not the Vapor is a quality rod isn't the issue for me. It's the low man on the totem pole (no pun intended) of an otherwise premium company, and has to be made in China for some reason(???). I'm siding with the Winston employees on this one.

Are there any shops nearby?

P.S. St. Croix has now extended its warranty to used rods made after around 2002. This applies to the Avid, Legend Ultra, and Legend Elite. Not a
bad deal, especially when you can find used Legend Ultra and Elites at very reasonable prices on ebay.

PPS: I don't want anyone to get the impression that I'm arguing with Moscapescador over this issue. Dennis is a fine man,
and I have nothing but respect for him and his opinions. He has helped me and many others on this forum, and I can only imagine that he is a straight-shooter
in his retail business.
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Old 06-11-2010, 07:35 PM
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Default Re: Winston rods

Yup, it was the old Winston reputation and the association with the days when Tom Morgan ran the company that got me interested a Tom Morgan Rodsmith rod.

I still smile and admire the rod every time I take it out of the rod tube to go fishing. That's worth something in and of itself.

Pocono
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Old 06-11-2010, 11:49 PM
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Default Re: Winston rods

I respect FrankB2's points of view. The way that I look at it, if someone wants Winston legacy, I know that person is looking for a "greenie." If someone is looking for a quality price point rod that matches that is a good fit for that person's needs, I'll show the Vapor.

MP

PS Hey FrankB2. I think that you can appreciate this. Two days ago I went on a group bike ride. Most of the group have modern road bikes with carbon fiber frames and Dura Ace or Ultegra components. All of us were drooling over this guy's red Schwinn (Waterford) Paramount decked out with Campy Record of that era.
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Old 06-12-2010, 12:25 AM
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Default Re: Winston rods

Tying bikes and fly rods together, and commenting on Schwinn Paramounts:

Waterford frames were a work of art. Silver soldered Reynolds tubing, and great lug work. Schwinn began importing frames from Japan, and labeled them "Paramount". I was a bit conflicted over this, but the Japanese frames were fine for the price point. Seeing them hang side by side (something we only did with framesets, not complete bikes), was like parking a Pinto next to a Ferrari. The Waterford was superior in all ways visually, and physically. In the mid 1990's, a Waterford-built Paramount frameset sold for more than a complete Japanese Paramount bicycle. I rode a Japanese Paramount....

There is a Winston dealer not far from me, and Vapors and green Winstons look like different beasts to me. I can see a Vapor and think that's nice, but when I see a USA Winston, I think SWEET!!!. A year or so ago, I started a thread about affording premium gear. Essentially, a Winston BIIx is $2/day for one year. Most people can find a way to set aside $2/day in savings, especially if you drink, smoke, visit Starbucks, or snack often. When the day arrives that you've saved the necessary funds, it'll be quite a thrill to finally take possession of a fine piece of equipment.

EDIT: Affording Premium Gear Thread:How to Buy That Premium Rod or Reel W/O Pain
I started that after several posters complained about wanting premium gear, but not wanting to spend the $$$, or simply not having the cash.
It can be done.

P.S. Waterford Bikes is alive and well BTW. Schwinn retired the Paramount in 1994, and the Waterford employees bought
the operation. I remember when the Schwinn rep called to say that the Waterford-made frameset were being blown out for $200 each in 1994, and I ordered
one in my size (61cm), as well as several others. I then changed my mind, and cancelled the 61cm frame, and then changed it again. They said all the frames
were dark red, and I hadn't seen one in that color. I cancelled mine again, and the frames arrived two days later. WOW!!! It was a beautiful deep candy apple
red, and I called to buy one for myself. Of course they were all long gone by then. Our retail on Waterford Paramounts was around $1,100-$1,200 depending,
and wholesale was about $600. It was one of the bikes we actually had a nice margin on. An Asian-made mountain bike that sold for $550 (average price point)
netted us about $150 after all was said and done. Our money was made on high-end bikes, water bottles, tubes, chains, and service. Service kept us in the black handily.

Last edited by FrankB2; 06-12-2010 at 09:15 AM.
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Old 06-12-2010, 05:50 AM
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Default Re: Winston rods

Frank: Very well said! I usually buy very nice rods and reels, but I buy last years models off EBay at around half price (or at least a steep discount), sometimes slightly used, sometimes brand new. For example, I recently purchased a brand new Lamson 3 Litespeed fly reel (not the new Hard Alox model) for $235 that lists for $339. I guess if I want the shiny new models I need to start saving my $2/day! LOL!

Larry
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