The North American Fly Fishing Forum


Go Back   The North American Fly Fishing Forum > General Fly Fishing Discussion > General Discussion

General Discussion General discussions regarding fly fishing as a whole. Ask questions. Get answers...

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 06-19-2010, 12:12 PM
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3
ip107 is on a distinguished road
Default Issues with new line

Hey all, I'm fairly new to fly casting. Bought a st. Croix rio santo 5wt outfit. I decided to change the fly line with Allen 5wt floating (which is fine). My problem is, the load won't load at all, as iff it's a 3wt line. Can't double haul or get any distance. It's almost like it's way under lined. Is this normal with different line types/brands? Can I possibly use a 6wt line to help the rodoad better? Hope this doesn't sound too odd. Just confusing me. Thanks for any info or advice.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 06-19-2010, 01:25 PM
mcnerney's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pinedale, WY
Posts: 12,736
Blog Entries: 34
mcnerney has a reputation beyond reputemcnerney has a reputation beyond reputemcnerney has a reputation beyond reputemcnerney has a reputation beyond reputemcnerney has a reputation beyond reputemcnerney has a reputation beyond reputemcnerney has a reputation beyond reputemcnerney has a reputation beyond reputemcnerney has a reputation beyond reputemcnerney has a reputation beyond reputemcnerney has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Issues with new line

ip107: This is pretty common, it is always a good idea to ask a fly shop or someone with experience with the line before buying. A six wt line should solve your problem.

Larry
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 06-19-2010, 01:35 PM
seajay's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Jacksonville,Florida
Posts: 247
seajay will become famous soon enoughseajay will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Issues with new line

Being a newb to fly fishing. There is a tread here were Jason accidentally shipped the wrong line. I would make sure that it is indeed a 5 not a 3.
Not to hijack your post. But how can one tell the difference between line weight. Is there a standard for line Diameter?
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 06-19-2010, 02:47 PM
jcw355's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 828
jcw355 is just really nicejcw355 is just really nicejcw355 is just really nicejcw355 is just really nice
Default Re: Issues with new line

Quote:
Originally Posted by seajay View Post
Being a newb to fly fishing. There is a tread here were Jason accidentally shipped the wrong line. I would make sure that it is indeed a 5 not a 3.
Not to hijack your post. But how can one tell the difference between line weight. Is there a standard for line Diameter?
That was me. He did send the wrong stuff but got me the right stuff. Was there any labeling with your line? One of the members was able to do a comparison with his lines, he had 3 and 5. You can tell the 5 is bigger than the 3.
__________________
Okiemountaineer
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 06-19-2010, 04:11 PM
Super Moderator/Fly Swap Coordinator
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,019
peregrines has a reputation beyond reputeperegrines has a reputation beyond reputeperegrines has a reputation beyond reputeperegrines has a reputation beyond reputeperegrines has a reputation beyond reputeperegrines has a reputation beyond reputeperegrines has a reputation beyond reputeperegrines has a reputation beyond reputeperegrines has a reputation beyond reputeperegrines has a reputation beyond reputeperegrines has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Issues with new line

ip107 welcome to the forum, hope you enjoy it here. We have a lot of good folks that can help you get started so feel free to ask questions as you get into it.

A couple things since you're just starting out:

1. Many fly lines are tapered. If you bought a "double taper" (labelled "DT") fly line, both ends are identical so it doesn't matter which end you put on the fly reel first. But if you bought a "weight forward" (labelled "WF") fly line, the "front" of the fly line will be noticeably thicker than the rear end that gets attached to your backing. You'll be able to easily tell just by looking at it.

Normally when you buy a new WF fly line, the thin end is on top. Since it gets attached to your backing, as you reel the line on the spool, the thicker, heavier front of the "weight forward" taper ends up on top of the spool. This will give you the oomph you need to cast. If you put the line on backwards (and it happens), you'll end up with the thinner, lighter end on top and it may not load the rod. Double check to make sure you have the fly line on correctly

2. How much line did you have outside the tip? Fly lines are labelled with "weights" based on the first 30 feet of fly line so if you have just 10-20 feet out of the tip you'll have difficulty loading the rod if you're just starting out.

If none of those things are an issue, hopefully a call to Jason will sort it out if the wrong line was sent by mistake, but larry (mcnerney) is right about rods and lines-- sometimes it's hard to tell whether a given brand/model of line will work well with a specific rod when starting out--- more experienced casters can accommodate different lines by varying their casting stroke. Going up a size by "overlining" (using a 6 weight line on a 5 weight rod) may help. (A lot of lines like Rio Grand etc are deliberately made a bit heavy anyway to help casting).

Seajay- unfortunately there's no easy way to tell what weight the fly line is unless you get it from the packaging. If you have a lot of different rods, reels, spools and lines it can get pretty confusing. And if you rely on stickers put on the inside of reel spools, they often come off.

What some people do is code the front of fly lines with a permanent magic marker (like a Sharpie) to keep track. A long dash indicates a "5", a short dash indicates "1" . So folks mark up the front of their fly lines like so:

3 weight= dash dash dash
5 weight= loooongdaaaash
6 weight= loooooongdaaaaaash dash
8 weight = looooongdaaaaaash dash dash dash
12 weight= looooooongdaaaaaash looooongdaaaaaash dash dash
etc etc

Other than that, the only other way is to actually weight the first 30 feet of fly line on a postal scale or kitchen/diet scale and converting the weight in grains (how fly lines are measured) to grams or ounces depending on the scale. At the risk of making your head explode,

1 gram = 15.4323 grains
1 ounce = 28.3495 grams = 437.499 grains

So if you have a 5 weight line, the first 30 feet should weigh 140 grains (allowable range 134-146 grains)

Or from 8.68306 to 9.46065 grams

Hope this helps- keep us posted.
__________________
Mark
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 06-19-2010, 08:09 PM
boser's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: CB, Iowa
Posts: 225
boser has a spectacular aura aboutboser has a spectacular aura aboutboser has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: Issues with new line

Mark, Now that is some useful information. I appreciate that and I will mark my lines as I take them off from time to time.

Regards, Boser
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2010, 10:15 AM
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3
ip107 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Issues with new line

Peregrines, thanks for the info. Very informative. After a day casting off the dock, I got use to the line. Think it just requires a softer touch. Still might line up one in the near future. Only problem yesterday was I Brock my rio santo rod about 2 ft from the tip on a piling. Anyone know where I can purchase a top portion of a 4 piece rod? Doesn't have to be st. Croix, since I'll be using this as my backup rod now. Thanks again for any info. This site is great.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2010, 11:04 AM
Super Moderator/Fly Swap Coordinator
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,019
peregrines has a reputation beyond reputeperegrines has a reputation beyond reputeperegrines has a reputation beyond reputeperegrines has a reputation beyond reputeperegrines has a reputation beyond reputeperegrines has a reputation beyond reputeperegrines has a reputation beyond reputeperegrines has a reputation beyond reputeperegrines has a reputation beyond reputeperegrines has a reputation beyond reputeperegrines has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Issues with new line

Ouch that stinks, sorry to hear about your rod tip. Don't feel too bad, this does happen--- casting weighted flies (like clousers) that can fracture a blank if they whack it, overhead ceiling fans, car doors, size 12 feet, trying to free snagged flies from tree limbs etc will gobble up more rods every year than breaking them on monster fish.

You'd really want to get a tip for that specific brand/model/weight blank as opposed to a tip from another fly rod that might happen to fit (and I wouldn't even bother with attempting to repair the broken tip portion).

So you'll definitely want to contact the fly shop you bought it from if purchased recently, or you can go to St Croix to see about repair or replacement-- the Rio Santo rods have a 5 year warranty that might apply depending on the circumstances (bought new, registered, etc). But they have sort of a tiered warranty/replacement program that also lets you get a repair replacement for a nominal cost (50 bucks) or a replace/upgrade (old St Croix rod for a new St Croix rod). Here's a brief run down of their policies:

Silver - for "defective" rods under warranty 20 bucks

Gold - repair (new tip in your case) or replacement for 50 bucks

Gold Star Plus Upgrade - If worse comes to worse St Croix does have an upgrade program, which lets you purchase a brand new St Croix with a bit of a discount. It works like this (Cost of New Rod + 50 bucks) - Cost of broken rod

Here's a link to their site: St. Croix Rods - Service and Warranty

If you bought it new from a local shop they might be able to replace it for you free or for a nominal charge, or help with contacting St Croix on your behalf.

Good luck, let us know how this pans out.

mark
__________________
Mark
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2010, 11:29 AM
boser's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: CB, Iowa
Posts: 225
boser has a spectacular aura aboutboser has a spectacular aura aboutboser has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: Issues with new line

Quote:
Originally Posted by ip107 View Post
Peregrines, thanks for the info. Very informative. After a day casting off the dock, I got use to the line. Think it just requires a softer touch. Still might line up one in the near future. Only problem yesterday was I Brock my rio santo rod about 2 ft from the tip on a piling. Anyone know where I can purchase a top portion of a 4 piece rod? Doesn't have to be st. Croix, since I'll be using this as my backup rod now. Thanks again for any info. This site is great.
ip, I feel your pain. I broke my 5 wy TFO rod about 2 months back. I was just sick.....Mark has given you excellent advice as always.

Best Regards, Boser
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2010, 12:02 PM
Hardyreels's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Wasilla / Skwentna, Alaska
Posts: 11,410
Blog Entries: 69
Hardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Yahoo to Hardyreels Send a message via Skype™ to Hardyreels
Default You Gotta Be Careful;

Hi,

I have had some close calls when fishing my way under bridges on small creeks, you gotta be aware of your clearances. Over the years I have had to have three repairs made.

1. Orvis Far & Fine 1994; first time I ever put rod in the bed of truck assembled and drove to a new location, 1.5" broke off tip.

2. 1996 I placed my 9' 5 wt PM 10 in the back seat of Bronco (disassembled but not in tube) when I stopped to check out creek my Pointer bailed from the cargo area into the back seat, tip broke in half. Some guys never learn, this was the first time I had ever done this also, this rod was very expensive but for some reason I thought I didn't need to tube it to move a few miles.

3. By 1998 I literally cast the tip of my bamboo flea rod to death. It splintered about 6" up the tip section while I was fishing Slate Run. This was the only case where I was not at fault through carelessness and I had an extra tip so the show went on.

Now the point; in every instance Orvis required that the entire rod be shipped back to Manchester so that new tips could be properly matched to the rod. It will be the same with a St. Croix I'm sure. The rods are specific when it comes to matching tips, mids etc. You can not just put any tip on a rod even if it is made by the same manufacturer and is of the same model. Sorry to hear that you have had a problem but this is how we learn to be careful with our fly rods.

In 1996 I bought a magnetic rod carrier (tower type) from Orvis. This gizmo allows you to lash a fully rigged rod to the hood and roof of a car or truck when you just want to move a few miles up or down a road along the river. I love this thing and have used it so often that I wore out a pair of clamps on it. Here at home I can don my waders and fully rig a rod complete with fly and then drive to a nearby creek. When I get there it is simply a matter of pull over, grab the rod, and go fishing. Same thing applies when you are done, I rather enjoy breaking down my rod and removing my waders at home as opposed to doing so along a public roadway.

Not sure that answered any questions, Mark did that but I was compelled to write all of this anyway.

Ard
__________________
Anywhere can be the land of great expectations, broken dreams, or paradise found, it's all up to you.

Life On The Line - Alaska Fishing with Ard

The Alaska Fishing & Outdoors Blog;
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Iowa Department of Natural Resources issues a weekly fishing report on Thursdays Fish Bones The Daily Papers 0 05-21-2009 02:40 PM













All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
2005-2014 The North American Fly Fishing Forum. All rights reserved.