The North American Fly Fishing Forum


Go Back   The North American Fly Fishing Forum > General Fly Fishing Discussion > General Discussion

General Discussion General discussions regarding fly fishing as a whole. Ask questions. Get answers...

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 09-13-2011, 12:14 AM
Guest1's Avatar
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Lake of the Woods/Rainy River Minnesota Canada border
Posts: 4,752
Guest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Throwing Larger Flies with a 6wt.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by vapor10 View Post
Im a newb and I cant do the double haul yet. Im trying but I cant do it.
That's the problem I would bet a million. Do you have anyone around that can show you how to do It?

---------- Post added at 12:14 AM ---------- Previous post was Yesterday at 11:45 PM ----------

Here is a you tube video that will hopefully help you with the double haul. One more thing that will help is you don't need to get the whole dang line out of the rod before you shoot. When you get the head out and maybe some running line (not to much) then haul and shoot. See if this does not help. Let me know if you still have problems. Also, do you use a stripping basket?
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 09-13-2011, 11:35 AM
swirlchaser's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Parlin, NJ / Staten Island, NY
Posts: 2,058
swirlchaser has a reputation beyond reputeswirlchaser has a reputation beyond reputeswirlchaser has a reputation beyond reputeswirlchaser has a reputation beyond reputeswirlchaser has a reputation beyond reputeswirlchaser has a reputation beyond reputeswirlchaser has a reputation beyond reputeswirlchaser has a reputation beyond reputeswirlchaser has a reputation beyond reputeswirlchaser has a reputation beyond reputeswirlchaser has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Throwing Larger Flies with a 6wt.....

Poppers are not heavy but they are about as aerodynamic as an old shoe. They tend to catch air instead of cut through it. I think Dan is right, slow down and focus on your cast, the distance will come.
__________________
The best way to a fisherman's heart is through his fly.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 09-13-2011, 04:12 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,463
bigjim5589 has much to be proud ofbigjim5589 has much to be proud ofbigjim5589 has much to be proud ofbigjim5589 has much to be proud ofbigjim5589 has much to be proud ofbigjim5589 has much to be proud ofbigjim5589 has much to be proud ofbigjim5589 has much to be proud ofbigjim5589 has much to be proud ofbigjim5589 has much to be proud of
Default Re: Throwing Larger Flies with a 6wt.....

It sounds to me like he may have multiple problems. A size 6 popper is not big relatively speaking, not even for a 6 wt. I've used a 6 wt quite a bit for bass fishing, and even some Striper fishing. I have no problem casting flies, and even poppers on 1/0 or 2/0 size hooks. Now, I cannot cast them the same distance as I might with a heavier weight rod, so perhaps that may be the first issue, trying to cast too far.

If you can cast the poppers 30 to 40 feet, you're doing fine. If your attempting to cast beyond that distance, your likely creating part of your problem. Plenty of bass can be caught within that distance, so you really don't need to make long casts.

Next, the Cortland 2X leader you're using, you didn't mention it's length. A 7 1/2 leader should be OK, but if it's 10 or 12 feet, then that may be the next issue. You don't need long leaders or long tippets with poppers & especially not with Clousers. I've used 6 to 8 ft leaders for years with my 6 wt, but my leaders for big flies are as heavy as I use with my 9 or even my 10 wt. A 2X is a trout leader, not a bass leader. It's nearly impossible to efficiently transfer line energy with big wind resistant poppers, or heavy Clousers with a trout leader intended for tiny flies, especially if it's way too long.

The rod wt really is not the issue. A 6 wt line is sufficiently heavy, but will limit distance. Look for a leader that has a butt diameter approximately the same as the connection point of your fly line, and only about 6 to 8 ft long maximum with tippet. 0X or at least 15 lb test tippet is a good start. I've even used 20 lb test at times, but my flies are a lot bigger than size 6. Again, this is not dry fly fishing so you don't need finesse! It's about transferring energy to make the cast with bigger flies! Plus bass are not usually leader shy.

Even a furled leader might help, but it should be for a heavier weight rod, like for an 8 wt.

Last issue, casting! If your casting is fair to good with trout flies, then you should still be able to cast bigger flies. But, you do need to change your casting stroke & timing. You won't get nice tight, picture perfect loops like you might with trout flies. You will need to slow down some & open up the loop with the poppers & it will be a slower stroke due to all that wind resistance. With Clousers, it will be more of a lob than a true cast, and you'll likely get even less distance than with the poppers. Folks call this chuck & duck casting for a reason!

Tight loops & Clouser Minnows, or any large, heavily weighted fly with barbell, cones or even beads is a great way to break your rod, or impale a body part. Actually, the impaling is preferred as long as it's not in your eye, as that will heal! The rod won't. Barbless or de-barbed hooks might be a good idea for you!

If your casting sucks with trout flies, then you need to work on it anyway, and should get some help from someone who regularly uses the big poppers & Clousers! Big difference between casting bass size flies & casting trout flies, especially with a 6 wt.

One more thing, learning to double haul is not a bad idea, but you don't need it to catch bass!
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 09-14-2011, 12:56 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The Beautiful Ozarks, Missouri
Posts: 55
jack crack jones is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Throwing Larger Flies with a 6wt.....

I've never learned the double haul and I too am a bit of a noob. I did discover this weekend that when I overlined my 8' 5wt with some 6wt line, I was able to cast better, and more accurate. If you have the chance, try overlining the reel with a 7wt line. Don't even have to strip the six to try it out, just blood knot the line to the six and wrap about 30 ft or so onto it. Give a few casts and you'll know if it's worth it or not.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 09-14-2011, 12:32 PM
wjc wjc is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: south florida
Posts: 1,429
wjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant future
Default Re: Throwing Larger Flies with a 6wt.....

Dan,

That's a good video. I'd not seen that one before. I actually like it better than the classic Mel Krieger one for both being faster paced, and for actually using a rod at the end.

When I taught my daughter to double haul I first had her pat her head and rub her stomach (which I already knew she could do as a little kid). Then told her that it was harder to learn than the double-haul.

Then had her do it in front of the mirror. She proclaimed herself ready in about 30 seconds. So I told her not yet, do it with your eyes closed and get the feeling of moving your hands in opposite directions every time you start to cast either forward or backward.

Just feel that happening, and imagine the rod in your hand bending as you start doing it. Then I told her that her brain memory would try to over ride her hands as soon as she got a rod in her casting hand (and usually succeed). But that her brain memory would weaken the more she forced it with pantomiming.

After a few short re-runs down at the dock at pantomiming between trying with rod in hand, and a little bit of stumbling around confusing herself, I had her haul only on the forward cast, then went up to get some sodas while she practiced.

When I returned aboutt 15 minutes later, she was double hauling.

But she was already good with a trout rod and didn't need to think about the casting stroke at all.

Watch that video a bunch of times and practice in front of a mirror. Keep at it, you'll get it. And it will add a huge dimension to your fishing.

Cheers,
Jim
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 09-14-2011, 05:34 PM
randyflycaster's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 593
randyflycaster is a name known to allrandyflycaster is a name known to allrandyflycaster is a name known to allrandyflycaster is a name known to allrandyflycaster is a name known to allrandyflycaster is a name known to all
Default Re: Throwing Larger Flies with a 6wt.....

A heavier rod and line will certainly help, as will learning the double haul.

Randy
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 09-14-2011, 07:06 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 53
vapor10 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Throwing Larger Flies with a 6wt.....

That video was literally 10x more helpful than the Krieger vid I saw. Thanks for posting.
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 09-14-2011, 08:25 PM
randyflycaster's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 593
randyflycaster is a name known to allrandyflycaster is a name known to allrandyflycaster is a name known to allrandyflycaster is a name known to allrandyflycaster is a name known to allrandyflycaster is a name known to all
Default Re: Throwing Larger Flies with a 6wt/Slack between the hands

Being that you're not hauling you might have slack line between your rod and line hands. Slack line between your hands will prevent your fly rod from fully loading.

To prevent this, when you begin your forward cast make sure you simultaneously move your line hand down. When you begin your back cast make sure you move your line hand up. (Not moving your line hand up will not cause slack, but if you don't, your hands will be too far apart at the end of your back cast, and you then won't have enough room, so to speak, to move your line hand down during your forward cast.

Also, IMHO, if your cast is executed correctly your fly will not hit you or the rod tip; so, though many disagree, I always cast poppers with tight loops. It is important, however, that I begin my forward cast before my back cast completely unrolls - unlike when I'm casting light dry flies. If my back cast unrolls the fly will bounce and add slack to the line and the line will also fall - then the fly will probably hit me on my forward cast.

Randy
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 09-14-2011, 11:24 PM
Guest1's Avatar
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Lake of the Woods/Rainy River Minnesota Canada border
Posts: 4,752
Guest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Throwing Larger Flies with a 6wt.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by vapor10 View Post
That video was literally 10x more helpful than the Krieger vid I saw. Thanks for posting.
Glad it helped. That thing Jim was saying about brain memory over riding your hands is very true. I did a video for a friend of mine to try and teach him and his wife via long distance how to cast a fly rod. In it I said I would do a cast without hauling. I looked at the video and I was still doing a double haul. It was not the big full on double haul, but there was a distinct double haul even when I tried not to. I have to seriously concentrate to stop myself. I'm pretty sure that there is nothing that will help anyone any more than learning to double haul.

Quote:
Originally Posted by randyflycaster View Post
Being that you're not hauling you might have slack line between your rod and line hands. Slack line between your hands will prevent your fly rod from fully loading.

Randy
This is a very good point also. I see beginners once in a while, as they go into the forward stroke, keep the line hand in place. This has the effect of reducing the distance between the stripper guide and the line hand. What this does is let line out as you go into the forward stroke. It's the "Anti-haul" so to speak. This will keep the rod from properly loading and kill your line speed.
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 09-15-2011, 09:11 AM
randyflycaster's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 593
randyflycaster is a name known to allrandyflycaster is a name known to allrandyflycaster is a name known to allrandyflycaster is a name known to allrandyflycaster is a name known to allrandyflycaster is a name known to all
Default Re: Throwing Larger Flies with a 6wt.....

P.S. Poppers won't break your rod tip if they hit it.

Randy
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
throwing tailing loops like crazy rjackh The Fly Cast 28 08-10-2011 12:29 PM
Throwing Streamers for Big Brown Trout mcnerney Southern U.S. 10 03-29-2011 10:40 PM
Good Cast= Throwing Water BigCliff The Fly Cast 5 04-14-2009 07:19 AM
Larger or smaller.... fysh Fly Rod Building 5 01-05-2009 12:08 PM
Just throwing it out there.... dorian.ducker Fly Rods 3 06-03-2008 05:59 PM













All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
2005-2014 The North American Fly Fishing Forum. All rights reserved.