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Old 11-04-2011, 10:09 AM
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Default Red Tippets

Anyone try that red line for tippet material? Does it disappear in water as claimed? I have also read that is has a high memory and a high tensile strength.
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Old 11-04-2011, 10:55 AM
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Default Re: Red Tippets

Are you talking about the Red X brand of Fluorocarbon?
If so it's got some good reviews on our sister board across the pond.
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Old 11-04-2011, 12:39 PM
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Default Re: Red Tippets

I've read & have been in several discussions concerning lines of different colors, whether fish see them, whether they "disappear" or whether or not they affect how we catch fish.

Here's my take on what you're asking simply based on my own experience & some things I've read about seeing color at various depths.

Light is why colors can be seen, and the color red will disappear at a depth where light no longer allows it to be seen. That depth will vary some with water clarity. If you're using red tippet in 2 or 3 feet of relatively clear water, then it's color is still going to be seen. Even if it's fluorocarbon. If you're using it at a depth of 30 feet, then it may not still be seen. However, even the smallest diameter line will displace water, and may be detected by it's movement through the water, since many fish species also have the ability to detect the vibrations via their lateral line. So, they'll know it's there regardless of whether they can see it or not. The real issue would be does it alarm them, or otherwise change their behavior adversely towards anything attached to that line. IMO, in most situations, it does not. If it did, we as anglers would not likely catch many fish. They simply react to their environment based on their instincts, and if that does not alert them to any danger that may be associated with the line you're using, then it will not adversely affect their behavior towards your fly! Drag and the resulting behavior of the fly is likely going to be much more of a problem than the color of your tippet.

I often use fl yellow braided line when fishing jigs for bass & saltwater species, tied directly to my lure. I catch plenty of fish, even with the Hi-visibility line. I'm sure they can see it, but they don't know what the line is!
I've also used many other colors of line, and frankly have never noticed any difference in catch rates. IMO, the line color is for our benefit.

If it has a high memory, and it's coiled, the coils will remain & could be an issue. Lines with low memory are usually better than those with high memory for both tippets & leaders. However, if other characteristics are more favorable for your application, such as high strength, or high abrasion resistance, and you can live with the high memory, then it could still be a useful tippet material.

High tensile strength should always be a plus, but that's as long as other characteristics for your application meet your needs too, such I said above.

BTW, I haven't purchased tippet material in over 30 years. My primary "tippet" now is Yozuri Hybrid, which I also use to make leaders & use on some of my spinning reels & bait casters. It works just fine for me & the fishing that I do!
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Old 11-04-2011, 01:23 PM
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Default Re: Red Tippets

Water preferentially absorbs red light, and to a lesser extent, yellow and green light. The color that is least absorbed by water is blue light. This is the reason big clean water lakes and the ocean look blue. That being said, not all red is equal. Red light in the 750 nm wavelength (The red end of the visible [to humans] spectrum) penetrates the least into water. However, 'red' goes to about 600 nm (the orangy end of red). That will penetrate to a depth of something like 20 meters. I seriously doubt any of us are fly fishing in that kind of depth. In fact even the 750 nm end of the range is not absorbed till after we get to depths past what most of us fish at. Back in my Scuba days, if I cut myself, blood looked a real forest green type color. The important point here is that it was NOT invisible. Red does not vanish with depth, it just looks like a different color. I have heard the argument that even where it is to shallow to disapear (which it doesn't) it looks like a blood trail to the fish and works as an attractant. I have my doubts as to the validity to that one as well. There are a lot of species that are just not line shy and some that are. You can try the red tippet and see how it works for you. As for myself I think I'll give it a pass.
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Old 11-04-2011, 01:54 PM
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Default Re: Red Tippets

Whenever there is a discussion about how fish react, one needs to consider how two main factors affect behavior. The first is biology. By that I mean the DNA, and the anatomic structure of the fish. In the case of the color red, can fish see red? Yes they can.

The second is population dynamics, how the population as a whole reacts vs a single fish. All the fish in a population do not react identically and yet most discussions assume that they do. Populations behavior is distributed around a mean and the behaviors tapers off in both directions around that mean. A symmetric distribution around the mean is called a bell curve.

So what I am saying is that even if a fish can see red, not all fish will react the same or even have a reaction. So how the fish that sees your red line will react is as much a factor of where it is on the bell curve as to whether it can actually see the line.

When someone says I use red tippet and catch fish so it doesn't bother the fish, what he is actually saying is that red did not bother THAT fish. He cannot assume it doesn't both other fish or even most fish.

In the case of the color red and water, other factors of water depth, clarity, and color affect visibility. Go HERE to see how water affects color. As has been said before, red is the first color to disappear and when there is no red light, red line will look shades of grey to black depending on the how red the line is.

The differential absorption of different wave lengths (color) in water means that red light soon disappears. In shallow water, red can be seen but at 1 meter or 40 inches, the color red in the ocean is pretty much a grey or a grayish red.

My view is that although fish have a lateral line, a fishing line does not cause a detectible change in underwater vibrations. The lateral line detects longer wavelength or low frequency vibrations from a struggling fish or a swimming fish and not high frequency vibrations.

More than color, I am concerned with

1. The surface reflectivity of the line - does it throw off bright reflections or is the surface dull. Reflections increase detectability.

2. Light refraction/absorption - is the the light distorted as it passes the line or does the line absorb all or some of the light?

3. Suppleness - does the line bend easily so as to conform itself to differences in water flow. This ability reduces drag.

4. Stretch - how much does the line stretch. This affects strike detection and reaction time.

5. Does the line absorb water - this affects diameter and strength. Nylon mono absorbs up to 30% water by weight and gets weaker. Fluorocarbon does not.

6. Abrasion resistance - maintains strength

7. Knot holding

As for color, I prefer clear lines. Clear lines most of the time blend in best with the water they are in. I believe they are universally less visible than colored lines for most circumstances.

Even in dirty water, you can see the water color transmitted through the line. Think of tippet as plates of window glass rather than a line. Imagine narrow strips of colored glass in different types of water. Only the clear glass (tippet) adds nothing and attenuates the least amount of light from the other side of the glass (tippet).

How about when it is floating and seen against a blue sky? What tippet color is least visible? But more than that, what tippet color casts the least visible shadow against the river bottom? The answer is clear.
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Last edited by silver creek; 11-04-2011 at 04:51 PM.
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Old 11-04-2011, 02:28 PM
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Default Re: Red Tippets

Quote:
Originally Posted by silver creek View Post
can fish see red? Yes they can.
I think Sturgeon can even see infared light. I was in an icehouse with a guy that had a camera down It was one with infared LED lights for use in the dark or deeper water. While I was standing there we saw a set of whiskers go by and some stirring of the silt on the bottom. The next thing we saw was this Sturgeon eye fill the TV monitor. It just froze there like it was mesmorized. I talked to the guy for another 4 or 5 minutes and in that time the Sturgeon was like a still photo. It did not move so much as a millimeter. I don't think the camera hanging still was the only reason it was seemingly fasinated by it. It stuck it's eye right in the lens and then froze like a statue. I have no idea how long it was there after I left, but it seemed to be hypnotized by it while I was there.
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Old 11-04-2011, 07:30 PM
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Default Re: Red Tippets

Thank you, but my question was "Has anyone tried that new red monofilament for tippet material?" Does it disappear as is claimed?
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:17 PM
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Default Re: Red Tippets

I cannot disappear. It turns from red to gray as it sinks. You can't counter the laws of physics. Trout see red, they see grey. So they see the line.

Young trout see a more into the UV spectrum than humans. This ability becomes a bit less as the fish get older. Point is the line is red a color that both humans and trout see. If you can see it, trout can see it.

Asked and answered.
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:34 PM
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Default Re: Red Tippets

I think only a fish would know that answer for sure since they are looking at it through fish eyes.

What it looks like to us may have little bearing on it.
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:50 PM
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Default Re: Red Tippets

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigdog2421 View Post
Thank you, but my question was "Has anyone tried that new red monofilament for tippet material?" Does it disappear as is claimed?
No, your question was
"Red Tippets"
Anyone try that red line for tippet material? Does it disappear in water as claimed? I have also read that is has a high memory and a high tensile strength.

Just a little more info from your end would be nice. What "red line/tippet". What's the brand name? I tried to google it and came up with fyshstkyr's Red X flouro brand on ebay UK. Nothing else. Where did you read about it?

Edit- after miliseconds of slaving over a keyboard, I did find this. Is this it?
http://www.basspro.com/Cajun-Line-Ca.../44398/-949608
Regular spin casting, worm chucking mono. Just another gimmick to sell fishing line. Read the reviews.
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