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Old 11-04-2011, 10:18 PM
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Default Re: A few thoughts on reels- Large, mid and standard arbor-

Thanks for all the replies everyone! The point as I see it is the difference between two similarly sized reels such as a 7wt large arbor and a 7 wt standard arbor with an appropriate amount of backing is negligible. The 9.5 second spread that I spoke of is between a 3/4 wt Hardy and a 8-10wt Loop and serves to show just how little difference there is.

As I said if your were to compare apples to apples the difference would be far less, perhaps .5 to 1 second. I have chased and caught fish from tarpon to trout and snook to steelhead and many in between. One second has never been the difference in success or failure and if that ever becomes the case I'll hang up my shock tippets and go find some bluegill.

---------- Post added at 11:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:09 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackster View Post
Okay then... a correction... using the reels you pictured to start this topic, pull 50' of line off and then post the results.
I thought about doing that but while the length in inches would slightly decrease the actual ratios between reels should remain the same, especially since they are all WF lines. While we could certainly find ways to ensure greater purity of results the actual data will not vary that much and again it is how one compares to the other that makes a difference or in this case the lack there of.

I for on am not discouraged from buying future large arbor reels, I love the look and in many cases they are lighter which is the case for many in the Abel line.
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Old 11-04-2011, 10:54 PM
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Default Re: A few thoughts on reels- Large, mid and standard arbor-

Quote:
Originally Posted by silver creek View Post
9.5 seconds is actually a long time and not a short time to lose contact with a fish.

The main reason a large arbor has an advantage is not when the fish is pulling away from you. It is when the fish is running toward you and a faster retrieve allows you to maintain and regain contact with the fish more quickly.

Would you be content to lose contact with a fish for 9.5 second?
This is a very good point. I have had more than one fish run right at me. I lost a really big Musky once because it ran straight at me and once it got my line in a good U, jumped and was never seen again. I have had big Pike do it to also. In fact I got one on video doing it to me this summer. It ran out into the river, did a really good jump and than high speeded it right back at me. That Musky was like 15 years ago and I can still see it like it was yesterday. My reel was not able to keep up. I barely kept up with the big Pike this summer. It may not happen every day where one comes barreling back at you but it does happen. Better safe than sorry. That's one thing I like about reels big enough to put on a spey rod. A fish runs at you and you have a chance to keep up. 9.5 seconds? I'll bet I didn't loose contact with that Musky for 3 seconds. Poof! Gone......
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Old 11-04-2011, 10:59 PM
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Default Re: A few thoughts on reels- Large, mid and standard arbor-

Quote:
Originally Posted by russellb View Post
I thought about doing that but while the length in inches would slightly decrease the actual ratios between reels should remain the same, especially since they are all WF lines. While we could certainly find ways to ensure greater purity of results the actual data will not vary that much and again it is how one compares to the other that makes a difference or in this case the lack there of.
you are wrong on this, especially with a WF line.

The Large arbor reel will have just about the same pick up speed from the start. The Small Arbor will start with a much slower pick up speed and with a WF lines smaller diameter running line it will take longer before the diameter increases ans the pick up speed increases.

I wish I could prove this to you but I don't have any small arbor reels other that the Dennison I have on my 1 wt, but geometry still dictates that the smaller diameter of the wheel covers a shorter distance per revolution.
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Old 11-05-2011, 06:27 AM
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Default Re: A few thoughts on reels- Large, mid and standard arbor-

Again more great thoughts from all and I wanted to share some more data that I went measured based your the comments and feedback.

Apples to Apples is a good way to describe today's measurements. I took four reels that represent two size ranges. First was the Loop3W a very large arbor reel for line weights from 8 to 10 weights and a corresponding standard arbor reel, the Lamson Bonefish. On the small side I compared the Abel 3N a 3/4 weight large arbor reel to the standard arbor Hardy Featherweight.
Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

As discussed the distance of retrieval was measured at both zero line out and with fifty foot of line out.

Click the image to open in full size.

With zero line out the distance per one revolution is as follows-

Loop 3W- 11 inches
Lamson Bonefish- 10.75 inches

Abel 3N- 8.25 inches
Hardy- 8 inches

With fifty foot of line out the distance per revolution is as follows-

Loop 3W- 10.5 inches
Lamson Bonefish- 8 inches

Abel 3N- 6.5 inches
Hardy- 6 inches

Based on this data the revolutions to retrieve 50 foot of line per reel are-

Loop 3W- 57.14 revolutions
Lamson Bonefish- 75 revolutions
Abel 3N- 92.31 revolutions
Hardy- 100 revolutions

In the two weight classes the reduction of revolutions to retrieve a distance of 50 foot is 17.86 revolutions for the Loop/Lamson and 7.69 revolutions for the Abel/Hardy.

With a brisk retrieval rate of 3 revolutions per second the Loop will save roughly 6 seconds over the Lamson and the Abel will save 2.6 seconds over the Hardy. Certainly there are fishing situations where 6 seconds can make a difference but I would imagine those to be fairly few. As for the 2.6 seconds on a small trout reel, I have a hard time seeing that as any advantage.
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Old 11-05-2011, 04:53 PM
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Default Re: A few thoughts on reels- Large, mid and standard arbor-

very interesting. Thanks for all the work. I wish the Loop reels were a bit more reasonable in price. They were the first to use the large arbor and their larger models are, in addition to being great fishing tools, are works of art!
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Old 11-05-2011, 10:44 PM
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Default Re: A few thoughts on reels- Large, mid and standard arbor-

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvercreek
Some standard arbor salt water reels do have wide spools as I understand it. Maybe a saltwater fisher can tell me if that is true.
I must have misplaced my brain. I thought we went through this already. I was sure I put pictures up of Colton frames with large and "standard" arbor spools and of a Tibor with "standard" spool, and also cited Mako, Tibor and Nautilus all doing the same thing. One frame wtih two spools, a "standard" and a large arbor.

Coltons are one of the most inexpensive, solid, saltwater reels made in the US, and the others are on the high end, also made in the US.

Someone mentioned in the other thread that he liked narrower spools, I think because it is easier to wind backing and line on without it getting stacked it up in the middle or one side or the other.

Wide spools can definitely be a pain in that regard, which may be one of the reasons, in addition to better balancing the reel, why Tibor offsets the reel foot to the frame side, and another of the reasons why I like them.

It is much easier on the rod hand fingers (for me anyway) to push the line to the crank side than pull it to the frame side. With it being offset, it does not have to be pulled nearly so far, and aids hugely in reducing cramping and line burns (for me).
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Old 11-06-2011, 04:55 PM
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Default Re: A few thoughts on reels- Large, mid and standard arbor-

Line take up is totally controlled by the spool diameter and the spool width. If you take a large arbor and a standard arbor reel that has the same dia and width the take up will be the same whether there is 10' off the spool or 250yards off the spool assuming the same line and backing. The only difference will be that the standard arbor reel will hold much more backing. When the standard arbor reel take up will get much slower when it gets close to the center of the arbor. The good part is you still have a fish on the line whereas the large arbor fish is long gone because you were spooled 75 yards prior.
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Old 11-06-2011, 07:37 PM
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Default Re: A few thoughts on reels- Large, mid and standard arbor-

Quote:
Originally Posted by silver creek View Post
9.5 seconds is actually a long time and not a short time to lose contact with a fish.

The main reason a large arbor has an advantage is not when the fish is pulling away from you. It is when the fish is running toward you and a faster retrieve allows you to maintain and regain contact with the fish more quickly.

Would you be content to lose contact with a fish for 9.5 second?
[/quote][quote=swirlchaser;342570]That being said retrieve rate isn't a huge factor for me and I target some large, hard running fish. I've watched other fishermen frantically trying to get a fish on the reel, why? If he belongs on your reel he'll put himself there. The only time a fish is on my reel is when I can't hold on to the line. If he swims towards me I strip the line tight and handline them again. I don't know if it's better of not but I get more satisfaction stripping a fish in rather than reeling it in.

Simple problem, Simple solution.
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Old 11-06-2011, 08:16 PM
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Default Re: A few thoughts on reels- Large, mid and standard arbor-

Quote:
Originally Posted by wt bash View Post

That being said retrieve rate isn't a huge factor for me and I target some large, hard running fish. I've watched other fishermen frantically trying to get a fish on the reel, why? If he belongs on your reel he'll put himself there. The only time a fish is on my reel is when I can't hold on to the line. If he swims towards me I strip the line tight and handline them again. I don't know if it's better of not but I get more satisfaction stripping a fish in rather than reeling it in.

Simple problem, Simple solution.
Great point!!! A couple more points- One, based on my experience fishing for species that require a significant reel, I have never had a steelhead, salmon, large trout, tarpon, large jack, snook, redfish, white bass, striper or pretty much any other large fish swim AT me. Not to say that this is unheard of but the species that I have chased they always either joined the current as an express lane downstream or headed to Cuba.

Two- the 9 seconds or so that I spoke about is the difference between the two extremes of the reels tested. In this case it was the difference between a 3 weight Hardy Featherweight and a 8-10wt Loop3W. In no way was I suggesting that these reels would be interchangeable but rather to illustrate what little difference I felt existed between the two if placed in a retrieval situation.

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Old 11-06-2011, 10:19 PM
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Default Re: A few thoughts on reels- Large, mid and standard arbor-

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Originally Posted by Diver Dan View Post
That's one thing I like about reels big enough to put on a spey rod. A fish runs at you and you have a chance to keep up. 9.5 seconds? I'll bet I didn't loose contact with that Musky for 3 seconds. Poof! Gone......
One of the criteria I use when choosing large reels is that they free-spool freely when taking in line. If I have excess line out and want to suck that line in quickly to get the fish on the reel and to prevent tangles and snags during the fisht, I just slap the spool to get the line in much quicker than actually reeling... maybe even quicker than cranking on a muliplier.
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