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Old 06-04-2007, 09:54 PM
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Default How about some KNOT know how!

Hello I'm new to the site but not to fly tying or fishing.Been doing it for 35 of my 42 years .I seem to be having trouble tying a nail knot (or any knot for that matter)from my backing to my fly line. I have always used conventional backing and had no problems. But now I am using 30lb TUFF line and the stuff is tuff that's for sure .I can't seem to keep it from cutting through the fly line or tightening up on it's self and snapping. The type of nail knot that I use is the type where you thread the line through the fly line instead of running it along the fly line .I have always done this with my leaders and regular backing and never had a problem .But I can't get a satisfactory knot with this tuff line .Any ideas or anyone use the tuff line and come up with a good or better way to connect it to the fly line? Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated !!
Thanks!!

Here is a pic of the leader to fly line if you can make it out.
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Old 06-04-2007, 10:16 PM
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Default Re: How about some KNOT know how!

Big Dog,

Your post is a little unclear as to which connection you are having trouble with. You first mentioned that you are having trouble with backing to line so I'll address that but in the end, you mention leader to line.

Anyway, I don't use a nail knot for my backing to line connection. I use a Duncan loop and have not had any problems yet. I guess it's really not a loop when using it for a line to line connection...

But it looks like your problem is with the leader to line.... I don't use the nail through. I use the side by side nail knot. Not familiar with tuff line. Sorry.
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Old 06-05-2007, 03:47 AM
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Default Re: How about some KNOT know how!

Sorry to be unclear Mike the one I'm having the trouble with is the nail knot with the tuff line as my backing .I tie it the same as the leader to line one shown but can't get a good knot it seems to cut through the fly line and or it's self.Thanks I will look up a duncan loop and see how that works.I really like the nail knots that run through the fly line as they are smoother going through the eyelets at high speed on exit .And they come in good and smooth when you have to reel them back in with a fish on.

Thanks !

Blair
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Old 06-05-2007, 08:44 AM
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Default Re: How about some KNOT know how!

Hi Blair,

Tuff Line is made from Spectra by Western Filament. There are braided super lines made for bass fishing. They are super strong for their diameter, won't absorb water and have very little stretch. Tuff Line is the original and they also make Tuff Line Plus, Tuff Line XP and Tuff line Guide's Choice. Your problem may be you chose a too light of line and its diameter is too small. Are you using 20lb or 30lb? If so, you may have better success with 50lb. The 50lb will have the diameter of 20lb mono. As suggested you should try a Uni Knot. If the single knot won't hold then try a double Uni knot. That is, tie two Uni knots in series. Be very carefull that you do not cross the Tuff line over its self when tying the Uni knot. Spectra lines will cut its self if the line crosses over its self. Just be sure each wrap is laid next to each other and carefully tighten. You can still use your needle knot approach just make sure you pull enough Tuff Line to tie the two uni knots. You might try one Uni knot and some KnotSense or PlioBond on the knot. Also try using more wraps when tying the Uni Knot. If you are using 5 wraps to make your nail knot then I would try 9 or 10 wraps with PlioBond.

Tuff Line Guide's Choice is an interesting line. It has a hollow core and you could feed a couple of feet of the fly line into the core and finish with a whip wrap on the end of the Tuff Line and cover with PlioBond. I bet that would work.
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Old 06-05-2007, 11:48 AM
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Default Re: How about some KNOT know how!

As usual, Frank's got the answers.

Sorry for any confusion with Duncan Loop/Uni. When not used as a termination connection, the Duncan Loop is essentially a one sided Uni.
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Old 06-05-2007, 12:32 PM
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Default Re: How about some KNOT know how!

Here's the one I would use Albright Knot

At second thought, I would probably double over the flyline, and tie a nail knot around that, with the knot coming right up near the end of the loop.
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Old 06-05-2007, 12:49 PM
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Default Re: How about some KNOT know how!

For salt flats...I use spectra 50, 65, and sometimes 80 in the first 100yds and I use both an albright with doubled backing coated with uv setting resin or bimini loop in the spectra and small loop wipped in the fly line. the latter allows easy flyline change...as of yet have not had the spectra cut the flyline loop but that method has been used only with 65 and 80 spectra to the fly line and the drag used is at most 5 lbs(less using 4-5kg) when into the backing using 6kg or 8kg tippet
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Old 06-06-2007, 05:33 PM
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Default Re: How about some KNOT know how!

Thanks for the replies !!

Yes Frank I'm using the 30lb Tuff line xp. Really fine like a tread and 30lbs I chose it as I can put lots of backing on my smaller hardy reel. I did the nail knot again last night and took extra care to get the wraps just so then I super glued it and let it sit over night .Seems to be a good strong knot this time ! There are other variables also I have been testing the line by holding the reel in my hand and pulling the fly line .Doing it this way there would be no rod bend or line stretch to absorb some of the shock or stress on the knot.
Guess I will find out in the morning if it's a good knot for sure .Coming home without a without a fly line is a expensive test though .....LOL.

Thanks!!
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Old 06-06-2007, 06:17 PM
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Default Re: How about some KNOT know how!

Hi Big Dog,

Sounds like you got it figured out. Did you use more wraps with your nail knot?

You have to be very careful with the Spectra lines. They will cut you to the bone if you get careless. I suggest a glove with an imitation leather palm and fingers to handle the line. Not only will they keep you from getting cut they offer good sun protection. I also use the glove when I fish big streamers and I do a lot of line stripping. They save a lot of wear and tear on the fingers.

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Old 06-06-2007, 09:19 PM
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Default Re: How about some KNOT know how!

Yes Frank I used a few more wraps and really tried to get it to all lay the same way ,very hard and eye bugging ! Yes the spectra line will cut you to the bone .I have been using gloves now for the last 4 years never ever thought I would want them but now I couldn't be without them .
Thanks!!
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