The North American Fly Fishing Forum


Go Back   The North American Fly Fishing Forum > General Fly Fishing Discussion > General Discussion

General Discussion General discussions regarding fly fishing as a whole. Ask questions. Get answers...

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2010, 02:29 PM
seajay's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Jacksonville,Florida
Posts: 247
seajay will become famous soon enoughseajay will become famous soon enough
Default Knots

I know that the norm is to use a nail knot to attach line to backing or when making a loop in the Fly line. What is the consensus for using a Uni knot in place of the nail knot?

Also when making ones own tapered leader most suggest a blood knot. Would a 2 or 3 turn surgeons work just as well?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2010, 02:37 PM
Hardyreels's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Wasilla / Skwentna, Alaska
Posts: 11,410
Blog Entries: 69
Hardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Yahoo to Hardyreels Send a message via Skype™ to Hardyreels
Default Re: Knots

I would stick to the blood knot on leaders. Never used a uni knot so I have no input on that
__________________
Anywhere can be the land of great expectations, broken dreams, or paradise found, it's all up to you.

Life On The Line - Alaska Fishing with Ard

The Alaska Fishing & Outdoors Blog;
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2010, 03:17 PM
Rip Tide's Avatar
Senior Member

 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: quiet corner, ct
Posts: 5,367
Rip Tide has a reputation beyond reputeRip Tide has a reputation beyond reputeRip Tide has a reputation beyond reputeRip Tide has a reputation beyond reputeRip Tide has a reputation beyond reputeRip Tide has a reputation beyond reputeRip Tide has a reputation beyond reputeRip Tide has a reputation beyond reputeRip Tide has a reputation beyond reputeRip Tide has a reputation beyond reputeRip Tide has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Knots

Quote:
Originally Posted by seajay View Post
I know that the norm is to use a nail knot to attach line to backing or when making a loop in the Fly line. What is the consensus for using a Uni knot in place of the nail knot?

Also when making ones own tapered leader most suggest a blood knot. Would a 2 or 3 turn surgeons work just as well?
The uni-knot is really little more than a clinch knot wrapped the opposite way and wouldn't constrict around the line the way the nail knot does
You might try the "nail-less nail knot" which I personally find much easier and works in the same manner.

The reason that a blood knot is superior to the surgeon's for tying leaders is that the ends extend straight out of the knot, while with the surgeon's you get a 45 degree bend.

---------- Post added at 04:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:52 PM ----------

I found instructions to three different "nail-less nail knots" on line
This is the one I'm referring to

Click the image to open in full size.
__________________
The simpler the outfit, the more skill it takes to manage it, and the more pleasure one gets in his achievements. --- Horace Kephart
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2010, 09:03 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 30
dt doug will become famous soon enoughdt doug will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Knots

SeaJay

Check out this video on making your own loop ends. Haven't had a chance to try it yet. It even looks fun!

Doug
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2010, 10:58 PM
ant's Avatar
ant ant is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Berks, PA
Posts: 936
Blog Entries: 1
ant is a splendid one to beholdant is a splendid one to beholdant is a splendid one to beholdant is a splendid one to beholdant is a splendid one to beholdant is a splendid one to beholdant is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: Knots

There's a nail knot tool that you can get that makes nail knots a breeze. BTW, I saw that video before and making loops that way is the best! Just make them big enough for the perfect knot on the leader.
__________________
Anthony Laurence
www.anthonylaurence.net
Web Developement and Design
FlyFishinado - My Fly Fishing Blog
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2010, 09:54 AM
Rip Tide's Avatar
Senior Member

 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: quiet corner, ct
Posts: 5,367
Rip Tide has a reputation beyond reputeRip Tide has a reputation beyond reputeRip Tide has a reputation beyond reputeRip Tide has a reputation beyond reputeRip Tide has a reputation beyond reputeRip Tide has a reputation beyond reputeRip Tide has a reputation beyond reputeRip Tide has a reputation beyond reputeRip Tide has a reputation beyond reputeRip Tide has a reputation beyond reputeRip Tide has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Knots

I'm a big fan of the whipped loop, but I only use it on my heavier lines, 6wt and over.
On my lighter weight lines I like a less bulky loop made with a short mono butt section nail-knotted (or needle knotted) to the line
__________________
The simpler the outfit, the more skill it takes to manage it, and the more pleasure one gets in his achievements. --- Horace Kephart
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2010, 08:02 AM
wjc wjc is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: south florida
Posts: 1,444
wjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant future
Default Re: Knots

That's got to be someone else's reel. He's holding it in his left hand and reeling in backwards with his right hand. He must be a salt water fly fisherman.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 07-05-2010, 01:04 PM
Brewmaster's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
Posts: 327
Brewmaster is just really niceBrewmaster is just really niceBrewmaster is just really niceBrewmaster is just really nice
Default Re: Knots

Looks like a fairly simple process and makes a nice neat loop; however, it also appears to be rather lengthy in time and number of required tools. I am sure it may be common in fly shops where there is plenty of work tables and all the tools you need. However, if you break a loop, or severly damage the end of a fly line while fishing, this does not seem too practical.

I can nail-knot a leader butt onto a fly line while standing in a stream in only a couple of minutes, and be right back to fishing in much less than 5 minutes. BTW - I do not mind that the nail knot is a really old style knot. Sometimes old stuff works just as well if not better than some new designs.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 07-05-2010, 02:59 PM
Hardyreels's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Wasilla / Skwentna, Alaska
Posts: 11,410
Blog Entries: 69
Hardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Yahoo to Hardyreels Send a message via Skype™ to Hardyreels
Default Re: Knots

I recently broke the loop on the end of a type 4 Hi density sink tip while fishing. I put a small perfection loop on the line (about three weeks ago) and haven't bothered with it since. It passes through the guides while stringing the rod and reeling in at quitting time so until it breaks again it's good with me.
__________________
Anywhere can be the land of great expectations, broken dreams, or paradise found, it's all up to you.

Life On The Line - Alaska Fishing with Ard

The Alaska Fishing & Outdoors Blog;
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 07-06-2010, 07:45 AM
wjc wjc is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: south florida
Posts: 1,444
wjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant future
Default Re: Knots

For leaders, in the smaller pound tests, I don't think there is much strength difference between back to back nail, uni, or blood knots. I start off with back to back nails, and use bloods when tying on new tippet when fishing for non-big game fish. Bloods can be tied with a minimum amount of line in the field, so you don't shorten up the section adjacent to the tippet by much. But I clench them up underwater because, of the three, they are easiest to "burn" or deform when clenched up.

I now use the loops the manufacturers put on the lines for connecting leader to line and backing, since I have heard good things about their strength in the last few years. Also because I have a stock of discontinued "new in the box" solid, hard mono-core tropical floating lines.

Nail knots are not particularly good when tied to solid mono-core, as they tend to compress the coating too much at the end of the knot and can pull it off, leaving a little piece of mono sticking out the end. One of those lines had the factory loop looking pretty suspect after a while and I replaced it with a mono-braided loop.

For fresh water fish , I would just use nails for both leader-line and line to backing. For leader to leader, bloods.

PS: An easy way to tie nail knots is to bend a thin piece of leader wire in half and squeeze to a good point. Then wrap around it and the fly line with the leader/backing, then shove the wraps tightly together with your thumb or finger nails. Now stick the tag end into the wire loop, and pull it under the wraps while spinning the line and wraps between the thumb and forefinger of your other hand. You will never get cross-wraps this way and the wire loop can be opened way up to make sticking the tag end into it a piece of cake.

Snug the knot a bit and get the wraps all touching each other, then slide it down near the end of your fly line before cinching up all the way.



Cheers,
Jim

Last edited by wjc; 07-06-2010 at 08:04 AM. Reason: PS
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
more knots green General Discussion 13 10-22-2008 10:53 AM
Leader knots HELLFIGHTER5308 General Discussion 11 06-06-2008 03:28 PM
Knots Joni Other Gear 14 04-10-2008 06:09 PM
Knots dougm Other Gear 2 01-21-2005 01:50 PM













All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
2005-2014 The North American Fly Fishing Forum. All rights reserved.