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Old 03-09-2012, 10:23 AM
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Default Re: Fast Action Rods and Effort

I have only recently purchased my first fast action rod which is a Conlon 7wt. so my observations may not be very good yet. I fish slow rods in the small creeks at home but I did like the fast rod in the salt. It seemed that I could shoot more line and with no wind I could almost cast the whole line. I could not do that with an old 8wt graphite that I have had for many years which is a slower rod.
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Old 03-09-2012, 05:51 PM
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Default Re: Fast Action Rods and Effort

[QUOTE=mrfzx;410918]

The amount of scientific work done is determined by the force applied and the distance over which that force was applied. So for the fast action rod, more force X short distance. The slower rod: less force X longer distance. For any given two rods the work done should be equal.....however reality is never that easy. Perception always throws a hitch in things: we are all unique, and we all perceive things differently.[
COLOR="Silver"]

How does inertia factor in with getting the softer material moving at the speed of the faster material, as it relates to tip speed?
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Old 03-09-2012, 07:03 PM
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Default Re: Fast Action Rods and Effort

Slower rods take less effort with short lines and fast rods respond best to longer casting situations. Inertia or the change in momentum of faster and slower materials is a fact of life.
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Old 03-09-2012, 10:10 PM
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Default Re: Fast Action Rods and Effort

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfzx View Post
Both will produce the same energy, the fast rod through a shorter stroke, the slower rod through a longer stroke.
That right there is the root of my belief, that a slower rod demands more effort. It seems to we are talking about two types of effort here, the effort needed for line speed and the effort required in stroke length.
Because the line hand usually does a lot in creating line speed, I give the more effort nod to the slower rod. I feel the long stroke length needed to power a slower rod takes more effort.
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Old 03-10-2012, 05:47 AM
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Default Re: Fast Action Rods and Effort

I think most all of the discusions about rods need to be pre-qualified by what kind of fishing they are used for. It has been so long since I've done any trout or landlock fishing in rivers and large streams I have no way to compare, since over 90% of that was done with either an 8 foot Leonard Duracane 6wt or a 7 1/2' Gene Edwards varnished 5 wt cane rod. I did later buy an 8 1/2' Sage RPL for bushwacking, but preferred cane to it.

Now, since fishing nothing but salt, and ocassional bass, I like to stay as far from the fish as I can reasonably reach. And from that perspective, rod action is less important to me than the rods overall power when really loaded with line.

I do not think rod action makes alll that much difference when really loaded. I've seen pictures taken from videos of different rod actions when heavily loaded for distance casts, and cannot see much, if any, difference in the bend across the board of action types. In fact, comparing stills taken from a vintage film of a world class distance champion from the 50's using a glass rod, I could determine no significant difference in rod bend from his fiberglass rod and my TCX on a long cast.

So I think rod power trumps action type for distance casts.

I haven't tried as many rods as I would like, and haven't taken the time to do any static testing of them like hanging weights on them and so on. The nicest casting rod I have ever cast, and which felt unbelieveable to me at the first cast was a Sage TCX 7 wt (with the silver reel seat) using a 7 wt line. I also like the 8 wt TCR with a 7 wt line. My daughter, who sadly has very little time on a rod handle, preferred the Sage TCR with an 8 wt line to the TCX with a 7wt line when casting them side by side, switching back and forth - but it took her a number of switches to decide.

I recently bought a 12 wt Sage xi3 and cast a 12 wt Rio Tarpon floating on it, but I like my late 1980's Sage RPLX 12 wt better with that line. From what I've been told, that old 12 wt was the most unpopular rod they ever made. Typical. However, I think the Xi3 will be perfect with an 11 wt line. That is what I was after anyhow, a powerful 11 wt rod.

When casting the TFO Ticr and Ticrx, I thought they were underpowered for the line ratings. To me they felt too soft in the tip for long casts. It felt like I was wasting too much at the beginning of the stroke in bending the rod and not getting the line moving.

For that kind of casting, I only use one casting stroke, as long as I can get. The tempo of the stroke changes, and the timing of clamping the line changes and the haul changes, but the total arc length doesn't change on the presentation cast (depending on the definition of casting arc length).

Since there are an infinite number of factors and degrees involved in casting physics, and and infinite number of casting styles involved, and an infinitely varying amount of feedback reaching the caster during each stroke, I think it's not possible to arrive at any generalizations at all.

Sorry, after all that typing, I can be of no help, Pegboy, and know less than what I thought I knew before I started.
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Old 03-10-2012, 10:50 PM
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Default Re: Fast Action Rods and Effort

To add a bit more to my two cents worth above, here are a few quotes from around the net that illustrates a point:

"The ideal bass fly rod has a strong tip to facilitate picking up bulky surface bugs and heavy underwater flies. The rod should have medium-slow butt section because these bugs and flies are wind resistant and this fly rod action blends perfectly with their natural air speed.
This design gives you great accuracy in your fly placement. Its smooth action lets you cast all day without arm-fatigue. On the pick up cast it easily slides bulky surface bugs off the river’s surface film with no loud gurgling noise that would quickly scare the smallmouth or largemouth bass." Describing Harry Murray's Bass Rod.


"Moderate: The bend extends halfway down the rod. Moderate action is best for casting large poppers or bass bugs (see Hooks and Flies)."


From an old buddy Colston Newton -”I haven't kept track of what the makers called "bass" rods, but have always thought of 8 weights as bass rods, preferably 8 weights with slow actions to improve roll casting when floating along parallel to a shore line.”

The point being that rods and rod actions are often tailored to cast particular flies, in a particular style, for a particular fish and with custom rods they can even be tailored to a particular style of casting. Almost in all cases the ideal is to match rod, line, reel (balance), caster, fly and fish that maximizes pleasure while minimizing the amount of work needed to accomplish said pleasure!
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Old 03-12-2012, 10:23 AM
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Default Re: Fast Action Rods and Effort

I also prefer slower rods for short distances, faster rods for long distances. You might try underweighting your slow rod by one line weight for casting long distances or overweighting your fast rod by one or two line weights for casting short distances.
I have found that changing line weights can make one rod work for both and it is cheaper than buying two rods! Of course you will eventually have about a dozen of each!
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Old 03-13-2012, 11:09 AM
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Default Re: Fast Action Rods and Effort

I can hardly think of worse terms than "fast" and 'slow' and "action" to describe a rod. Almost no one knows what they mean, since they don't mean what makes sense.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with how fast or slow the rod pops back from a bent position, or how much force it takes to bend it. It is purely the way rod manufacturers have decided to describe WHERE it bends the most under whatever load they decide to use. Solid fiberglass or solid willow rods can be either "fast" or "slow" or in between. This has been done for years with bamboo by changing the tapers used.

I think it's Orvis who uses the terms "tip flex" , "mid-flex" etc to describe their rods - a practice that should be adopted by all the manufacturers and all the authors writing about the rods as far as I'm concerned.

If I were new to this, I'd think "fast" and "slow" would refer to
the recovery rate.

Rant complete.
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Old 03-13-2012, 09:46 PM
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Default Re: Fast Action Rods and Effort

I respecfully disagree. When fishing a "slow" rod, I have to slow my stroke noticeably to give the rod time to load. A "fast" rod requires a quicker stroke. It seems to me this relates to line speed: "slow" rod, slow line speed; "fast" rod, fast line speed.
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:28 PM
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Default Re: Fast Action Rods and Effort

the force requires to move a fast action rod is different than that of a slow action rod therefore one cannot assume the work done is the same. i love my super stiff bvk. The problem most people have with fast action rods is they try to flex the midsection and treat them like medium or slow action rods They arnt. You cast with the tip and that's pretty much it.
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