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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2012, 09:42 PM
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Default Re: Tippet to Leader Knots ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyreels View Post
Hi Russell,

Where you been?

attila, I blood knot everything even the tippet. I don't change flies often so I don't worry about changing tippets.

Ard
Hello Ard-

I have been in constant motion, a real moving target. After many years serving as an air traffic controller I have moved out of the controller ranks and taken a position in management. This transition has ensured that I am staying very busy with a summer full of travel. I have had a few chances to lose the shirt and tie and wet a line. Enclosed is a nice little brown taken on a 3wt with a #16 elk hair caddis- a spunky 19 inch male from the North Fork of the White.

I travel to Florida mid April to the FAA's management and executive leadership school. It's located in Palm Coast, a couple hours north of the Mosquito Lagoon- one of the redfish meccas. Yes, I already booked a guide...

Enough of my stuff, how are you and what's new out there?


PS- sorry to the OP for jacking your thread!

Click the image to open in full size.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2012, 11:47 PM
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Default Re: Tippet to Leader Knots ?

Boy oh Boy, that's a beauty Russ,

atilla, I believe Russell's tippet connections are solid based on the picture.

Nice
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2012, 10:20 AM
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Default Re: Tippet to Leader Knots ?

I am late to this thread as I would expect this topic to be under lines in the tackle section. Leader construction - whether hand knoted, furled, braided, or whatever - is a truely critical link in our rigging from trout to tarpon. Sticking to the subject of a conventional knottted leader though, I have long believed that properly tied and thoroughly cinched blood knots ruled. It is imperative that, vision permitting, you learn to tie these knots without tools and intuitivly. This is all about finger placement and muscle memory and must be pracaticed. After each knot is snugged and trimed it must be tested with a firm uniform pull...better you break a faulty knot than the fish of a lifetime. Loop-to-loop conections in trout sized tippet material are a. a weak link and b. worse yet, poor transmitters of casting energy. Now I have used a 6 to 7 turn blood knot attaching 5 or 6X tippets for decades with very low breakage rates. However, I was reading an excerpt from Art Scheck's book in which he methodicly tied and broke tippet knots and he opined that the "Ligiture Knot" was the strongest tippet attaching method. It is hard to tell trout fishing where a well tied blood knot is stronger than a #16 dry fly hook but I have put the Ligiture to the test in saltwater fluorocarbon hand built leaders and have become convinced Art is correct. So now I affix my butt section to the line with either a 12 to 15 turn nail or Albright knot (depending on core type) build down with blood knots using more turns as the diameter of the materail decreases and for the 4 to 5' of tippet section I employ the Ligiture knot. In the salt I tie the fly on with a non-slip loop knot and in fresh water I use a double through the eye 5 or 6 turn Trileen knot which is not only stronger than an improved clinch knot but locks on the front of the eye and prevents frictional damage to the tippet material and unnatural odd angles to the fly. When something breakes when putting the screws to an out sized fish, I am very hard on myself if it is one of my knots.
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Old 03-28-2012, 07:27 AM
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Default Re: Tippet to Leader Knots ?

just adding on - For hand tied leaders, I have been using blood knots, but now have the tie fast tool, and am using back to back mini nail knots (3 turns each) and they are easy to tie and seem to hold really well.

d
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2012, 09:52 AM
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Default Re: Tippet to Leader Knots ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetandsalt View Post
... I have long believed that properly tied and thoroughly cinched blood knots ruled. It is imperative that, vision permitting, you learn to tie these knots without tools and intuitivly. This is all about finger placement and muscle memory and must be pracaticed. After each knot is snugged and trimed it must be tested with a firm uniform pull...better you break a faulty knot than the fish of a lifetime. Loop-to-loop conections in trout sized tippet material are a. a weak link and b. worse yet, poor transmitters of casting energy. Now I have used a 6 to 7 turn blood knot attaching 5 or 6X tippets for decades with very low breakage rates. However, I was reading an excerpt from Art Scheck's book in which he methodicly tied and broke tippet knots and he opined that the "Ligiture Knot" was the strongest tippet attaching method. It is hard to tell trout fishing where a well tied blood knot is stronger than a #16 dry fly hook but I have put the Ligiture to the test in saltwater fluorocarbon hand built leaders and have become convinced Art is correct. So now I affix my butt section to the line with either a 12 to 15 turn nail or Albright knot (depending on core type) build down with blood knots using more turns as the diameter of the materail decreases and for the 4 to 5' of tippet section I employ the Ligiture knot. In the salt I tie the fly on with a non-slip loop knot and in fresh water I use a double through the eye 5 or 6 turn Trileen knot which is not only stronger than an improved clinch knot but locks on the front of the eye and prevents frictional damage to the tippet material and unnatural odd angles to the fly. When something breakes when putting the screws to an out sized fish, I am very hard on myself if it is one of my knots.
I curious to know about this "ligature knot," knot strength and directions. Do you have a link?

Your point is well taken. Recently while fishing the White I tied 3 blood knots in a row with 6x tippet and after testing all 3 broke. I surmised that my knots had either been tied hastily(5 turns) or my tippet material had aged. I switched to a surgeons knot and went back to fishing without further issues. Later I retied another blood knot and after testing was satisfied. Perhaps I reasoned that tying standard leader to fluorocarbon was the reason for the breakage. Over 2 days I had issues with good fish breaking off my fly to tippet knot ( 2 good fish). I finally decided that a long break in fishing, hasty knot tying were the cause of lost fish.

I've always believed in the Trilene knot but I'll be back testing Blood and Perfection loops before my next saltwater outing.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2012, 10:15 AM
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Default Re: Tippet to Leader Knots ?

Click the image to open in full size.

This Ligature knot takes a little practice and a bit more tag end wastage than the blood knot. It is also slightly bulkier, however, its twin set of wraps with the tags protruding at opposite ends of the knot eliminates any "pinching" of the leader material giving it its remarkable strength. I will avoid any foolhardy statement of its % strength but if you take a long hank of material and tie this knot and a blood and/or surgeons knot and break it a few times, I predict that like me, you will find this knot the repeated winner.

Both the non-slip loop and Trileen to fly knots are stronger than blood or surgeons knots. Assuming all knots are correctly tied and tightened, a fish heading for a log jam or the mangroves that must be turned or lost, will break you at the tippet knot leaving him with a few feet of mono or worse, fuoro, to drag around. With this Ligature Knot you will more likely break only the fly off or, possibly and hopefully, turn him from the cover.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2012, 12:54 AM
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Default Re: Tippet to Leader Knots ?

Take your new tapered leader and after you use about 24 inches of it tying on flies, then tie a small Kreh Loop in it. Non Slip Loop Knot - How to tie a Non Slip Loop Knot

Before going fishing, while at home with good light, etc take your spool of tipper material and cut it up into four ft sections. Take each section and tie a small Bimini Twist in one end, giving you a loop and then tie a Perfection Loop into the other end and continue doing that with each section till all are tied into approximately three ft long tippet sections. Loop to Loop these back together and wiond them back on the spool. When needed in the field, take one off the spool, unloop it, cut the Perfection Loop off and loop the Bimini end to your Kreh loop on your leader. This is a near 100% system and works great with other near 100% knots such as the Trilene Knot when tied to your fly. The Bimini is a near 100 % knot and gives a bit of shock absorbtion as it stretches when needed. By the way, I didn't come up with this system as the Master, Lefty talks about it now and then and has mentioned it in print also.
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Old 03-31-2012, 09:14 AM
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Default Re: Tippet to Leader Knots ?

Chuck that's a great idea
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Old 04-01-2012, 03:51 PM
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Default Re: Tippet to Leader Knots ?

My eyes and dexterity have been going now for a number of years so I had to give up tying leaders and blood knots and nail knots.
I can make furled leaders and do so with those tiny tippet rings at home. I just tie the tippet on to the tippet ring with:
- a Uni-knot,
- loop-to-loop ('girth-hitch' using the Perfection knot) or
- Davy knot (I just started to use this knot, my opinion is still out)

I try and use just 2 knots, the perfection loop and the Uni-knot. (Maybe replaced with the Davy knot)
I can tie both of these in low light. (Practice)
I can also tie the Uni-knot with my forceps or tweezers (for those really cold days that you want to keep your gloves on).
In addition I pre-tie (Perfection loops) loops on 3 or 4, 4foot tippets, roll them up in some folded paper and carry them to the river as back up. Just one knot needed (tippet to fly) just loop-to-loop on the other end.

Seems to work for me.

Getting old S*^K's!

Larry

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