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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 11-08-2007, 12:26 PM
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Default Re: Make Your Own Leader

To my knowledge, a perfectly tied blood knot is stronger than a perfectly tied double surgeon's, (like 96% to 98%) but the blood knot is harder to tie perfectly. Because of all the wraps, there is a lot of friction involved in snugging up a blood knot, and this creates lots of potential for friction that can deform or melt the mono. This is all theoretical knowledge, I haven't done a head to head test of blood vs. dbl surg's.

However, I have done this on a double surgeon's compared to a triple, and the results are interesting. When tying mono to mono, the DOUBLE surgeon's was actually STRONGER than the triple. HOWEVER, when tying a fluorocarbon tippet onto a mono leader (very similar if not same strengths) a TRIPLE surgeon's was the stronger knot. I can't give a confident reason as to why this is the case, but I'm sure its something to do with the fact that fluorocarbon is considerably harder than mono and doesn't compress or deform the same way.
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Old 11-08-2007, 01:39 PM
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Default Re: Make Your Own Leader

Hi Cliff,

The difference between mono and fluoro is the fluoro is slicker and the additional wraps with fluoro helps prevent it from sliping. That is why I recommend using more wraps with fluoro or braided lines than with mono. I don't know but this may be due to the fluoro being harder than mono. I know with braided lines they are very soft but are still much slicker than mono. Knots the work with mono won't work well with a braided line made from sepctra.

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Old 11-08-2007, 03:02 PM
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Default Re: Make Your Own Leader

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Originally Posted by Frank Whiton View Post
Hi Cliff,

The difference between mono and fluoro is the fluoro is slicker and the additional wrap with fluoro helps prevent it from sliping. That is why I recommend using more wraps with fluoro or braided lines than with mono. I don't know but this may be due to the fluoro being harder than mono. I know with braided lines they are very soft but are still much slicker than mono. Knots the work with mono won't work well with a braided line made from sepctra.

Frank


Very well put Frank. I use a blood knot for every connection (Frog's Hair mono) until the last connection which I substitute the Flouro (usually around 2 ' to 28") and then I use the Triple Surgeon....smaller knot.
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Old 11-08-2007, 06:51 PM
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Default Re: Make Your Own Leader

I just got this tool for blood knots. 4 steps and you can make a blood knot. seems all you do is put the 2 lines you want connected into the vise like tool. take the lil pick thing in the middle that comes off and use that to twist the 2 lines around then you take the one tag end and put it down against the pick and the other end up against the pick the opposite way. remove the pick and the lines from the vise and then tighten the knot down. sounds pretty easy. just waiting on the leader material to come to see how easy it is.
the tool is called a dennison leader making vise. it was 7 bux on ebay!
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Old 11-08-2007, 07:45 PM
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Default Re: Make Your Own Leader

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Originally Posted by GeorgeMcFly View Post
I just got this tool for blood knots. 4 steps and you can make a blood knot. seems all you do is put the 2 lines you want connected into the vise like tool. take the lil pick thing in the middle that comes off and use that to twist the 2 lines around then you take the one tag end and put it down against the pick and the other end up against the pick the opposite way. remove the pick and the lines from the vise and then tighten the knot down. sounds pretty easy. just waiting on the leader material to come to see how easy it is.
the tool is called a dennison leader making vise. it was 7 bux on ebay!


Good deal! Mine cost me over $100, but I got a bunch of different Frog Hair tippet with it for free...LOL

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Old 11-08-2007, 11:31 PM
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Default Re: Make Your Own Leader

awesome kit joni! seen the frog hair without the leader maker and it was 100 bux! maybe it had the leader maker with it. I just seen 100 bux. lol. too much for me for my 1st leader kit. I am cheap I guess lol. I got umpqua leader kit for 41 bux on ebay but he said he might send the rio kit instead cause he was out as of then waiting on a backorder. either or it will work for what we use it for. heres a pic of the leader maker I got. its a lil smaller than yours. hope it works just as good tho. anything is better than trying to tie it by hand. I think with a couple clips and a small stick like object you can make the same thing maybe for cheaper?

hey frank its been quiet here without ya postin. hope you are having fun!
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Old 11-09-2007, 09:49 AM
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Default Re: Make Your Own Leader

Hi to all,

"Good deal! Mine cost me over $100, but I got a bunch of different Frog Hair tippet with it for free...LOL"

Hi Joni,

I like your thinking. When I use to buy insurance for my plane I always thought that the first flight cost me $2000 and it was free the rest of the year. How does your tool work?

Hi George,

You did get a good deal but I would be concerned about how old the mono is and how it was stored. I bought some leaders on the Norfork in Arkansas and I couldn't tie a knot in it without it breaking. It was covered in dust and I think it was older than the hills.

I tried the blood knot tool you have but did not like it. I found that I could tie them just as fast by hand, or at least almost as fast.

I am sitting here this morning dead heading on a wireless system from the house next door. I will be leaving today and won't have access to the net for a couple of weeks. You guys and gals wll just have to struggle along with out me.

Frank
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Old 11-09-2007, 11:57 AM
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Thumbs up Re: Make Your Own Leader

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joni View Post
. . . I use a blood knot for every connection (Frog's Hair mono) until the last connection which I substitute the Flouro (usually around 2 ' to 28") and then I use the Triple Surgeon....smaller knot.
Joni, this makes a lot of sense. The more difficult Blood Knot portion of the leader can be constructed at home beforehand using the Frog Hair Blood Knot tool you have, which is easier to use than the Dennison model I have since it will set on a table by itself rather than having to be hand-held while using it. Then usually the only leader knotting that would have to be done streamside would be with the easier (for me) Triple Surgeon for tying on Fluoro tippit to the Mono leader.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 11-09-2007, 02:15 PM
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Default Re: Make Your Own Leader

Fly2Fish, exactly...much easier
Frank, the tool that came with the leader kit is easy. The base is weighted as Fly2Fish mention and it sits on the table. The clips have rubber tubing over the teeth so it holds the mono better without cutting into it.
Very simple kit. The old man bought the hand held many years ago, used it a couple of times, then it was never seen again...I guess he didn't care for it either.
Looking at the Frog Hair one, it would be easy to build one.
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Old 11-09-2007, 06:57 PM
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Default Re: Make Your Own Leader

frank, awesome you got a plane? thats crazy man! I just got flight simulator 2004... anyways.
I will find out how old the mono is when I get it and try to tie the leaders for the 1st time. plus there is a 100 percent money back guarantee if you aren't satisfied. I will just return it. seems like a reputable fly shop. but see around here it is hard to get fly fishing stuff there is no fly shop.. basically you can go to gander mountain or get it offline and gander doesn't really have a huge selection of tippets and all the good stuff. not good to hear most of you don't like the tool I have. I am a trooper tho so I will just suck it up and use it anyways. as long as it ties the knot right I will be happy. I might even vise grip it to the table to make it sturdy! haha. well good luck to you guys on fishing. I am going tomorrow to try to find some steelies! maybe I will be back on with a pic of me and my 1st huge rainbow on the fly!!!
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