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Old 05-03-2012, 09:38 PM
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Default Newbie - wind knot in leader

OK so im very new and i have a quick question. I have a wind knot in one of my leaders, should i trash it? I know knots weaken the line, and its towards the 4X end so i cant get it out. I know they are like 3 bucks but just wondering for future reference should I swap it out for a different one? I tried the search didnt find any help on this.
Thanks in advance!
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:42 PM
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Default Re: Newbie - wind knot in leader

nip it off and tie some tippet on? I usually use just the leader until i use up a foot or so, then tie on my tippet to get more mileage out of it.
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:45 PM
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Default Re: Newbie - wind knot in leader

Snip it off just above the knot and rebuild it with section(s) of tippet to the desired length. Until the leader gets shortened into the heavier butt material you can keep rebuilding it and stave off replace.
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:46 PM
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Default Re: Newbie - wind knot in leader

Like MNflyfish stated... Just taper it down using tippet. So if you're getting into the thicker portion of your leader, add a foot of 2x, than a foot of 3x, than your 4x tippet.
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Old 05-04-2012, 10:48 AM
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Default Re: Newbie - wind knot in leader

My view is that a wind knot is only a problem if it weakens the leader as a whole. For example a wind knot in the butt section can be undone without it weakening the leader because the tippet will break before the weakened butt section.

So every wind knot should be not be cut out and a new section of leader put in. That is just nuts. You are replacing one wind knot and adding two knots to tie in the new section of leader. Either tighten the knot down and continue using the leader or use a needle to unravel the knot.

A wind knot in the tippet can be replaced but ONLY if the knot you are tying the new tippet on with is STRONGER than the overhand wind knot that is already there. You see what I am saying? Just tying on a new tippet will weaken a knotless tapered leader by adding the knot! My view is that you examine the knot and the tippet for abrasion and replace it if you see a nick. But to replace a tippet section for a single wind knot is "not" necessary and will weaken the leader more than leaving a single overhand wind knot in the tippet.

If you have multiple wind knots, the situation is different. If you are a beginner and tend to get wind knots frequently, I would leave them in and change the tippet out at the end of the day. The only time I would change the tippet out in the middle of the fishing is IF I thought I had a shot a big fish and I would need the slightly stronger tippet without the wind knots in it.

Remember that it is the weakest point in the leader system that will break. Even if you have 10 wind knots in your leader, only the weakest of the knots will break. Adding wind knots that are the same or slightly stronger do not affect the breaking strength of the leader.

Suppose you take a section of tippet material and tie 10 overhand knots it it to simulate 10 wind knots. They are not cumulative. Only one of them is the weakest and all the knot will be very close in breaking strength.

Bottom line - there is really not much of a reason to replace the tippet right away UNLESS:

1.There is a nick or abrasion.

2. There are big fish.

3. You are a fanatic and the wind knot will throw you off your game.
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:40 PM
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Default Re: Newbie - wind knot in leader

There are knots that retain 100% of the line strength and other knots that reduce line strength. In my early days of fly fishing I lost fish to ignored wind knots. Having learned the hard way several times I now take the time to cut the wind knot out and retie with either blood or surgeons knots. This is all part of a New Years resolution I made to myself easily 10 years ago... to not lose fish to thrift or laziness.
My understanding is that mono absorbs water and gets softer with use and that an overhand knot will cut itself with enough tension.

"Overhand (Figure G-2). This is the simple knot that most people tie everyday as the first half of tying their shoes. It can also be used to temporarily whip the end of a rope. This knot should replace the half-hitch as a finishing knot for other knots. This knot alone will reduce the strength of a straight rope by 55 percent."
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Old 05-05-2012, 12:02 AM
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Default Re: Newbie - wind knot in leader

I believe it was Fly Fisherman magazine that just did a Tippet shoot-out comparison, but one of the more important parts had to do with knot-strength. Like Jackster mentions, the knot-strength of a wind-knot does not rank very high!
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Old 05-05-2012, 01:08 AM
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Default Re: Newbie - wind knot in leader

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackster View Post
There are knots that retain 100% of the line strength and other knots that reduce line strength. In my early days of fly fishing I lost fish to ignored wind knots. Having learned the hard way several times I now take the time to cut the wind knot out and retie with either blood or surgeons knots. This is all part of a New Years resolution I made to myself easily 10 years ago... to not lose fish to thrift or laziness.
My understanding is that mono absorbs water and gets softer with use and that an overhand knot will cut itself with enough tension.

"Overhand (Figure G-2). This is the simple knot that most people tie everyday as the first half of tying their shoes. It can also be used to temporarily whip the end of a rope. This knot should replace the half-hitch as a finishing knot for other knots. This knot alone will reduce the strength of a straight rope by 55 percent."
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Jack,

After investigating I think you are right. So I take it back about not removing the knot in the tippet.

Here's another reference I found:

knotcyphers / Knot Strength - or Weakness
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Old 05-05-2012, 08:36 AM
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Default Re: Newbie - wind knot in leader

Everyone's giving you good advice. Cut above the knot and rebuild with tippet.

Personally, I often just tie on a new leader and save the remains of the older one for a bass leader or tie on a piece of 4-6 lb. test and go for bluegills. Works well enough as those fish are not line shy and normally don't require precision casting. Saves a couple of bucks, too.
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Old 05-05-2012, 06:23 PM
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Default Re: Newbie - wind knot in leader


Save you self some 'newbie' learning curve and buy or make your own ferruled leaders.
Get/make ones with those tiny tippet rings and add 3-5’ of tippet (Buy the spools of mono/floro at B-Pro. Saves you a lot of money instead of buying tippet spools.)

Once you start using a ferruled leader 90% of your wind knots will disappear…at least it did for me. I rarely get wind knots. Of course it comes with practice also.

Good luck and welcome to an addition that can’t be cured!
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