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Old 06-07-2012, 11:47 PM
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Default Looking for an alternative to tying nail knots

Hope I am posting this in the right place, I have always used a nail knot to connect my leaders, but lately I have switching leader sizes more often and was wondering if there is a better way to connect my line. I wish I was using a line with a welded loop on the end, but alas I am not. I am aware of the braided connectors they sell, but just wanted to get everyones opinion on what my best option is.

It seems like I could tie a nail knot and then use a bit of leader butt section to tie a perfection loop?

Any help is vastly appreciated, thanks in advance.
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Old 06-07-2012, 11:54 PM
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Default Re: Looking for an alternative to tying nail knots

Somewhere a while back FrankB2 posted about how he tied his own loop on with ting thread. I have done this with all of my fly lines, and it works really well.
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Old 06-08-2012, 01:12 AM
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Is there a way to just tie a loop in the end of the fly line? I have seen some saltwater rods rigged this way and never actually thought of doing it on my floating 5wt trout line, but it seems like it would make life much easier.
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Old 06-08-2012, 01:34 AM
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Default Re: Looking for an alternative to tying nail knots

Hi Green,

There are many ways to get it done. The welded loops can be home made but require some finesse, there are threads here where they are discussed at length. Replacing the welded loop or this one; "Welded" Loops

This one is pretty slick also: Making The Blind Splice connection, by WJC;

This one was made by our manager, Frank Whiton: Making a loop on your Fly Line.

I used the system of having a butt with perfection loop nail knotted to my lines for years. I used this on heavy lines 7 - 10 for salmon fishing. The butt was made with 16" of 30 pound Amnesia and I ran level leaders off of that.

For trout fishing I used nail knots and the Not a Knot connector (no longer available but they worked fine for trout fishing) until the line manufacturers started putting braided loops on lines in the early - mid 1980's.

Today I just changed my salmon line to a braided loop connector because the line I'm using does not weld well at all. I came up with a connector that I'll trust on fish up to 50 pounds. It all comes down to what works for you and how easy it is for you to do. I hope the links are helpful,

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Old 06-08-2012, 01:45 AM
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Default Re: Looking for an alternative to tying nail knots

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Originally Posted by lancer09 View Post
Somewhere a while back FrankB2 posted about how he tied his own loop on with ting thread. I have done this with all of my fly lines, and it works really well.

I did this as well with the couple of lines i have that didnt have pre-welded loops. It takes a bit of effort to get it done, but sure is worth it.
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Old 06-08-2012, 02:00 AM
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Default Re: Looking for an alternative to tying nail knots

The link I posted by Frank Whiton has a step by step for doing this
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Old 06-08-2012, 07:32 AM
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Default Re: Looking for an alternative to tying nail knots

I was going through the same thing and decided to tie a short piece of 30lb (on the 8wt) amnesia to the fly line with a nail knot and then just tied a perfection loop knot on the other end. Now I can easily change leaders and I have a built in strike indicator
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Old 06-08-2012, 09:21 AM
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Default Re: Looking for an alternative to tying nail knots

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Originally Posted by brookfieldangler View Post

I was going through the same thing and decided to tie a short piece of 30lb (on the 8wt) amnesia to the fly line with a nail knot and then just tied a perfection loop knot on the other end. Now I can easily change leaders and I have a built in strike indicator
This is what I have done too in the past.

Coating the knots with a bit of 5-Minute Epoxy helps to lock them in and smooth the bumps so it passes through the rod guides easier as well.
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Old 06-08-2012, 09:22 AM
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Default Re: Looking for an alternative to tying nail knots

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Originally Posted by Hardyreels View Post
Hi Green,

There are many ways to get it done. The welded loops can be home made but require some finesse, there are threads here where they are discussed at length. Replacing the welded loop or this one; "Welded" Loops

This one is pretty slick also: Making The Blind Splice connection, by WJC;

This one was made by our manager, Frank Whiton: Making a loop on your Fly Line.

I used the system of having a butt with perfection loop nail knotted to my lines for years. I used this on heavy lines 7 - 10 for salmon fishing. The butt was made with 16" of 30 pound Amnesia and I ran level leaders off of that.

For trout fishing I used nail knots and the Not a Knot connector (no longer available but they worked fine for trout fishing) until the line manufacturers started putting braided loops on lines in the early - mid 1980's.

Today I just changed my salmon line to a braided loop connector because the line I'm using does not weld well at all. I came up with a connector that I'll trust on fish up to 50 pounds. It all comes down to what works for you and how easy it is for you to do. I hope the links are helpful,

Ard
I think I am going to scour the local stores today for some mosher mini cons, but if I can't find them I will get busy tying these. I think that for my style of fishing and were I fish it will definitely benefit me to change leaders more often. Normally I am quite reluctant to change a leader (because tying a nail knot in the wind with cold hands is not fun).
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:26 AM
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Default Re: Looking for an alternative to tying nail knots

Quote:
Originally Posted by brookfieldangler View Post
I was going through the same thing and decided to tie a short piece of 30lb (on the 8wt) amnesia to the fly line with a nail knot and then just tied a perfection loop knot on the other end. Now I can easily change leaders and I have a built in strike indicator
Quote:
Originally Posted by stenacron View Post
This is what I have done too in the past. Coating the knots with a bit of 5-Minute Epoxy helps to lock them in and smooth the bumps so it passes through the rod guides easier as well.
This is what I was taught to do. I absolutely prefer line that comes with a loop. Next time I have to set up new line that doesn't come with a loop I will probably try one of the other methods.

Do any of you guys/gals use welded loops? Let me ask you this. Do you trust them? My welded loop went down to my bank, disguised as me, and withdrew $20,000 dollars from my checking account. I never would have found out, but I found $20K worth of line dressing under my bed. (thanks Steve Martin - please don't sue.) I had a welded loop fail on me while setting up shooting heads. Fortunately I was at the casting ponds so my bank account is safe. Maybe they work well if installed correctly - I will never know without therapy for my trust issues. I was told to use a nail knot to secure the welded loop and I did what I was told.

Even with the epoxy (I was taught to use Pliobond - be careful how you store the stuff. Don't do what I did, my bottle leaked out into a bag of gear, fortunately it didn't ruin anything valuable. If you don't wipe the lip of the bottle clean either the cap is impossible to remove or it doesn't sit right and will leak.) that connection tends to stick in the guides - a real pain for a beginner to get used to.

It is kind of nice to have a bright, colorful section to tell where your line is when light is low or to indicate a strike subsurface - although like most of us I prefer to cast dries on the surface and I fish that way most of the time.
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