The North American Fly Fishing Forum


Go Back   The North American Fly Fishing Forum > General Fly Fishing Discussion > General Discussion

General Discussion General discussions regarding fly fishing as a whole. Ask questions. Get answers...

Like Tree5Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2012, 11:55 AM
wabi's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: southern Ohio
Posts: 521
wabi is just really nicewabi is just really nicewabi is just really nicewabi is just really nicewabi is just really nice
Default What IS fly fishing?

Recently read a thread on another fly fishing forum where a young angler caught a catfish on his fly rod by attaching a piece of "bait" to the hook to attract a strike from the fish which repeatedly refused a fly.

The young man got a lot of bashing for his method and was more or less told it was NOT fly fishing.

I have read of numerous examples in the early days of angling with a fly it was a fairly common practice to switch to a "garden hackle" (aka worm) when the fish refused an imitation. (I think a lot of those folks were also fishing for food. No fish = no dinner!)

On the other hand, I have read of fishing trips where a person used a weighted plastic "bubble" to enable them to cast a fly with a spinning rod.

So for the sake of discussion, is "fly fishing" only properly used to describe casting a fly with a fly rod (and fly line) to entice a fish to strike?

Could it be used to describe using a fly rod (& line) to cast a "garden hackle", and/or could it also apply to simple catching a fish on a "fly" even if it was attached to the line on a "spinning" rod?
__________________
Mike
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2012, 12:23 PM
Rip Tide's Avatar
Senior Member

 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: quiet corner, ct
Posts: 5,707
Rip Tide has a reputation beyond reputeRip Tide has a reputation beyond reputeRip Tide has a reputation beyond reputeRip Tide has a reputation beyond reputeRip Tide has a reputation beyond reputeRip Tide has a reputation beyond reputeRip Tide has a reputation beyond reputeRip Tide has a reputation beyond reputeRip Tide has a reputation beyond reputeRip Tide has a reputation beyond reputeRip Tide has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: What IS fly fishing?

Growing up we used to fish garden hackle on our fly rods all the time. Even had a pocket in the vest reserved for "red wigglers"
That's not fly fishing. That's bait fishing with a fly rod.
Fly fishing is fishing an "artificial", cast using the weight of the line rather than the weight of the lure.
mojo and gt05254 like this.
__________________
The simpler the outfit, the more skill it takes to manage it, and the more pleasure one gets in his achievements. --- Horace Kephart
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2012, 12:37 PM
theboz's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pocono Lake , Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,167
theboz has a reputation beyond reputetheboz has a reputation beyond reputetheboz has a reputation beyond reputetheboz has a reputation beyond reputetheboz has a reputation beyond reputetheboz has a reputation beyond reputetheboz has a reputation beyond reputetheboz has a reputation beyond reputetheboz has a reputation beyond reputetheboz has a reputation beyond reputetheboz has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: What IS fly fishing?

Simply stated wnen you use bait whether on a fly rod or a spinning rod you are baitfishing. If you put a spinner on a fly rod you are lure fishing . If you add bait to a fly or scent you are no longer following the object of the sport which is to attract a fish using an artificial fly made from materials that make it necessary to use the line to cast the fly not the weight of the lure.
There is a guy who caught a 300 lb plus fish on a fly rod using a fly with pork rind attached as an attractor. Although this was a phenomenal catch on a fly rod I do not consider it a fly caught fish. Nor do I consider a fly soaked in bunker chum to catch a shark or other species to be a fly caught fish.
Fly fishing is meant to challenge us both mentally and physically and to stimulate us to figure it out. Everything else is just fishing.
__________________
"I was born to fish" Lee Wulff
"There's more B.S. in fly fishing then there is in a Kansas feedlot." Lefty Kreh
" It ain't over till it's over." Yogi Berra
"Your not old,you've simply acquired a patina." Swirlchaser
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2012, 01:43 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,766
bigjim5589 has a brilliant futurebigjim5589 has a brilliant futurebigjim5589 has a brilliant futurebigjim5589 has a brilliant futurebigjim5589 has a brilliant futurebigjim5589 has a brilliant futurebigjim5589 has a brilliant futurebigjim5589 has a brilliant futurebigjim5589 has a brilliant futurebigjim5589 has a brilliant futurebigjim5589 has a brilliant future
Default Re: What IS fly fishing?

wabi, I've been in many discussions about what is or isn't "fly fishing". To me, it's something that each person has to decide for themselves, as long as they're within the law if it applies. Just as an example, here in MD there are fly fishing only trout streams & "fly fishing" is defined by the law. Otherwise it could be open to interpretation.

I pretty much follow what theboz has posted, fishing with bait is bait fishing regardless of tackle used. Fly fishing is also lure fishing, except the casting method & tackle type differs between a lure & a fly. Of course, a fly can be used with other tackle, but requires something added to provide enough weight for casting, most of the time. There could be exceptions, and there is a bit of overlap especially if you compare ultra light spinning lures & some fly types. In this case, I follow the definition as the State of MD defines it, as it cannot be cast "from the reel" which is what is done with spinning & baitcasting tackle.

IMO the use of pork rind could be debated since it's nothing more than the preserved skin of an animal, something used extensively in fly tying. Adding a pork strip for additional attraction could also be interpreted as the same as adding any other material to a fly in the field to make it more attractive, or to add weight. If you add a piece of rabbit strip to a fly is that not the same as adding a piece of pork rind?

A pork "chunk" might be a different story since there is still fat attached to the skin, so that could be considered bait. But pork rind is preserved with a brine (salt) solution, so I doubt it added much in the way of scent particularly if that 300 lb fish was caught in saltwater. Adding fish oil or juice IMO is the same as adding bait.

Even among those who only use "flies" there is much debate, since a "fly" is a specific group of insects, and does not include all insects as they are designated by science. Same with the many patterns that imitate other things, such as baitfish, shrimp, crabs or crayfish. A baitfish, or any of the others are not a fly, so how can a "fly" imitate a baitfish. It's gets into splitting hairs real fast.

Quote:
Fly fishing is meant to challenge us both mentally and physically and to stimulate us to figure it out.
Boz, I'm not picking on you, but this is another idea that does not have to define just fly fishing. A person who fishes with other tackle could certainly have the same attitude & thought about the use of that type of tackle.

Fly tackle evolved as simply a means to hold the line & cast an artificial imitation a longer distance. This was before spinning & spin casting tackle. If there was any spiritual implications to the method, then they were just adopted by individuals, just as they are today.

If a person wishes to define fly fishing as a spiritual experience for them, that's fine, but again, others who do not fly fish, and fish with other tackle could feel the same about their preferred method.

Frankly, it's all fishing, and not everyone who uses a fly rod shares that opinion!

If you search the roots of "fly fishing", and go back to a time when it was about the only form of angling with lures or flies, you will find that there have been many things accepted as "fly fishing". At one time spinners added to the tippet ahead of the fly was a popular method as was the use of baits.

To each his own!
__________________
My Blog: http://tidewaterflyblog.blogspot.com

Remember, no one likes to be behind the big truck, but that's better than being under it!
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2012, 04:14 PM
wjc wjc is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: south florida
Posts: 1,512
wjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant future
Default Re: What IS fly fishing?

Quote:
Nor do I consider a fly soaked in bunker chum to catch a shark or other species to be a fly caught fish.
That is a very bad idea. I had a buddy do that to some of my flies he was using, all of which were expensive. Every one of them was ruined - stiff as a board. Even Dawn detergent wouldn't touch it. Furthermore, that stuff - even before it hardens up - totally ruins the action of a good fly.

Fly fishermen have three major advantages over every other type of fishing.


1) We can present even very large flies delicately at a good distance.

2) We can cover the water most likely to hold fish, pick up at a distance and cover another section without wasting time reeling a lure all the way back in.

3) Most importantly, we can use very delicate materials tied directly to a single hook without narrowing the hook gap, and those delicate materials will puff up in the water and swim incredibly lifelike at very slow (if any) speed or at any other speed or combinations we choose. To interfere with that action by adding fish oil is totally counterproductive in my opinion.

Sharks are the only specie I know where scent can make a difference. But as to what constitutes "fly fishing", that is up to you.
__________________
http://www.miterclamp.com/Images/N_Amer_FF.jpg Cheers, Jim
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2012, 04:42 PM
mudbug's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 1,034
mudbug is a splendid one to beholdmudbug is a splendid one to beholdmudbug is a splendid one to beholdmudbug is a splendid one to beholdmudbug is a splendid one to beholdmudbug is a splendid one to beholdmudbug is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: What IS fly fishing?

Dragging flies behind a casting bubble is an Austin Family tradition (my family) since me grandfather tweaked his method decades ago.

He had a very particular set-up for this. He did not use a spin caster because he got tired of getting his line all tangled up in the eastern AZ mountain winds (noted as one of the windiest places in the country). instead he used the very best quality spincaster available, an Abu Garcia Abumatic Model 170 (discontinued for awhile then brought back recently as the Abumatic Classic 170I). He used a 5.5" medium heavy 2 piece rod (good luck finding those today). 6" of leader connected to a swivel which was tied to the main line with the casting bubble behind it.

He taught this to all 7 of his kids, who taught it to their kids. This is how I learned to fish for trout when I was old enough to manage casting the rig and how I fished up until 2 years ago when I took up fly fishing.

Note that I feel I took up fly fishing 2 years ago. That is because even though I was dragging wooly worms, damsel fly nymphs, and AZ peacock Ladies through NE AZ lakes for 35 years, I don't think I was Fly Fishing.
__________________
450bushmaster.net
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2012, 05:07 PM
Jackster's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 1,647
Jackster has a brilliant futureJackster has a brilliant futureJackster has a brilliant futureJackster has a brilliant futureJackster has a brilliant futureJackster has a brilliant futureJackster has a brilliant futureJackster has a brilliant futureJackster has a brilliant futureJackster has a brilliant futureJackster has a brilliant future
Default Re: What IS fly fishing?

The definition of fly fishing for me is exactly how I do it. It isn't Tenkara and it isn't using bait or scents. For a very young kid it is using a casting bubble to get the fly out.
You can argue with my definitions all you want but fly fishing is also a rather personal pursuit so those are just my personal views.
wt bash likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2012, 05:26 PM
mikel's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Ben Lomond, Ca
Posts: 1,939
Blog Entries: 2
mikel has much to be proud ofmikel has much to be proud ofmikel has much to be proud ofmikel has much to be proud ofmikel has much to be proud ofmikel has much to be proud ofmikel has much to be proud ofmikel has much to be proud ofmikel has much to be proud ofmikel has much to be proud of
Default Re: What IS fly fishing?

With due respect to Wabi, who asked an honest and reasonable question...

Who cares? Fish with what you want and how you like and be concerned about leaving the waters as clean or cleaner than when you arrived. Follow the laws and protect the environment and have fun.
williamhj likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2012, 10:07 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Grapevine, TX
Posts: 120
drlaser has a spectacular aura aboutdrlaser has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: What IS fly fishing?

I tied up some furry foam crayfish and noticed the foam absorbs an amazing amount of water and began to wonder how it would absorb some bang crayfish scent left over from my tournament days but decided against it as to me its not in the essence of fly fishing.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2012, 07:25 AM
wabi's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: southern Ohio
Posts: 521
wabi is just really nicewabi is just really nicewabi is just really nicewabi is just really nicewabi is just really nice
Default Re: What IS fly fishing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikel View Post
With due respect to Wabi, who asked an honest and reasonable question...

Who cares? Fish with what you want and how you like and be concerned about leaving the waters as clean or cleaner than when you arrived. Follow the laws and protect the environment and have fun.
That is a very good answer!

In all honesty I just enjoy fishing, and catching fish is the measure by which most people judge success.
As long as it's legal, and the person is being ethical in respect to the environment why question the methods used?

I enjoy the fly rod more than any other form of delivering my presentation to the fish. I haven't used a spinning rod for several years now - it just isn't fun for me anymore. No problem with those that do (matter of fact my son takes a spinning outfit more often than his fly rod). I do use a baitcasting outfit for targeting some species (catfish is the most common target) when the plan is to sit in a folding chair and let the fish find my bait while I relax.

I have even used the fly rod to present a plain hook with a waxworm impaled on it to target stocked trout in the local lake. The lake is shallow and the water gets hot in the summer. The trout are released for anglers to catch & eat (and to sell fishing licenses and get people out fishing). The trout have no chance of survival (last week surface temperatures were in the high 80s and the deepest part of the lake is only 10 feet). The almost weightless presentation the fly rod allows me to make is usually very effective for catching a mess of trout. It may not be "fly fishing" in the strict sense of a definition, but it is legal and effective, and FUN! I still get to experience the fight of a rainbow on a light fly rod a few times each spring and I live in an area where trout are not present naturally.

Perhaps someday I will be able to take a trip where I can target trout in their natural environment with my fly rod and a wisp of fur and feathers I have tied on a hook, but for now that experience is reserved for bluegills, crappie, and bass when I fish near home.

Main attraction - it's legal and FUN!
__________________
Mike
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On














All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
2005-2014 The North American Fly Fishing Forum. All rights reserved.