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Old 06-25-2012, 11:06 AM
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Default Knots; double-nail knot vs. blood

I know there other knot discussions here, but what the heck? I mean, knots and their strengths, knowing the proper uses and right way to tie them is as important - maybe more - than the fly you tie on with the knot. The right fly with a crappy knot is a futile endeavor.

But for this discussion I specifically looking for knowledge about the double-nail knot at a leader building connection. For those unfamiliar, it is simply two nail knots, one tied onto both sections of line and synched together, it is essentially a two "stoppers" next to each other.

I have heard claims that the double-nail is stronger than the blood knot. But I haven't found any honest strength ratings. I assumed, like most, that the hollowed blood knot is the best line to line leader connection. But a double-nail is easier to tie and is a bit smoother.

Anyone?
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Old 06-25-2012, 11:23 AM
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Default Re: Knots; double-nail knot vs. blood

For attaching two leader sections together I use either a modified Triple Surgeon's knot or a Double-Uni Knot. Both are very easy to tie and VERY rarely do I get breaks.

Unfortunately I can't find a picture of how to do the modified Triple Surgeon's.
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Old 06-25-2012, 11:34 AM
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Default Re: Knots; double-nail knot vs. blood

I use the double-uni and surgeon's to tie tippet to leader. The surgeon's is, I believe, stronger than the double-uni.

But for leader building, I don't want to use a surgeon's for the heavy but end connections. The double-nail is similar to the double-uni, a little trickier to tie, but stronger.
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Old 06-25-2012, 11:37 AM
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Default Re: Knots; double-nail knot vs. blood

I use blood knots for any leader to leader or leader to tippet knots. I made my self learn it a while back practicing on the couch and have become pretty proficient with it.
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Old 06-25-2012, 11:54 AM
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Default Re: Knots; double-nail knot vs. blood

Quote:
Originally Posted by lancer09 View Post
I use blood knots for any leader to leader or leader to tippet knots. I made my self learn it a while back practicing on the couch and have become pretty proficient with it.
Good going...that's (IMO) the better knot and the way to get proficient using it.

I, however, am too lazy to do so and tie trip surgeons when attaching tippet, in honor of my weak peepers and clumsy fingers.

-m
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Old 06-25-2012, 12:40 PM
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Default Re: Knots; double-nail knot vs. blood

I can't believe how hard it is to find actual knot strength ratings, at least I have hard time. Everyone has their favorites and make claims, but I just would really like to know the scientific truth. The best I have found so far is from Field & Stream; at least they tested the knots with controls and repetition and used a digital scale. The results are surprising. He has the blood knot, double uni, and surgeons rated at 63-61% respectively! I thought these where supposed to be 90+% knots. The winner in the line to line knot, the J-Knot. http://www.fieldandstream.com/photos...ode-1001319720
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Old 06-25-2012, 01:32 PM
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Default Re: Knots; double-nail knot vs. blood

Hi John,

Diver Dan has done some petty in depth tests and I'm pretty sure he has them posted here; a search of all his threads may turn the post up.

My fishing has always been very simple when the knots are in question. Like everyone I had to learn the blood knot, a nail, and the clinch knot. There are a couple others but the perfection loop is another I need a lot. Prior to 1993 I tied flies to the tippet with a clinch knot but in 93' I was shown a knot for fly to tippet that is much stronger. I do not know the name of it but it is a variation of the non slip mono loop. What I tie is simpler but when fishing even big game if I have a fish break off it is my perfection loop that gives, not the fly to leader knot. I know this because I lose the whole leader not just the fly.

The double nail knot you describe is something I've never heard of or seen. For all the years since I was shown the slip knot I have used only it, the blood, and the perfection loop. Those three knots have seen me through the past 19 seasons and are still at service this year. While I realize that there is always room for improvement I believe that we sometimes seek to over complicate our fishing. I am certainly not guilty of this over complication practice. I find it enough of a challenge to find fish consistently and then to catch some. If the knots, fly lines, rods & reels I use have been getting it done for any length of time I tend to avoid starting out on some new thing because I may have heard it's better. Conversely, if I begin to have problems with something like knots I'll get busy to try finding a solution.

I realize that I may be missing some things by remaining set in old practices but I have my reasons. I remember back in the 70's into early 80's when home and automotive stereo systems were changing with new technology at a breakneck pace. By the mid 80's I thought I had good sound but everyone I knew was constantly upgrading and at considerable cost I might add. Often I was told that I should go to so & so's place to hear that new system he has. I would reply that 'I don't listen to other peoples stereo's'. Of course I was ask why; my excuse was that mine sounded good and as long as I was not exposed to something that I would walk away believing that I had to have one now, I would be happy with mine for years to come. Silly perhaps but while many friends pumped a bunch of money into the most extravagant systems offered I was planning leave of absence from my work and trips all over the continent to fish.

The stereo story may be a bit lame being used to explain why I don't seem to care about whether my knot is the very best but it does demonstrate a long history of stubborn behavior
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Old 06-25-2012, 01:58 PM
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Default Re: Knots; double-nail knot vs. blood

Ard, I love the stereo story, it's perfect!

And I do agree about over complicating a lot things. I was throwing this question out because I had never heard of a double-nail knot either as a line to line knot, but when I saw it, it made complete sense. It's like a double-uni, but with nail knots, which we know are great knots.

It was in the youtube video that the guy making the knot (to sell his tool, of course) add the caveat: "and it's a lot stronger than the blood knot." A Lot stronger? I have a hard time believing that.

But I am just starting to tie my own leaders for various situations and have assumed the good ole fashioned blood knot to the best. But the nail is easier to tie and if it is just as good, then why not? I mean my tape player sounds great in my 83 Tercel!

I have been waiting to see if Dan jumps in here, but I'll just search out his posts.

Thanks.
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