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Old 10-26-2012, 09:07 PM
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Default Knot for larger flies

Hey guys so I have been having some trouble lately getting my larger flies to stay tied onto my leader. I lost a few clouser minnows because they came off during the cast. I had tied them on with a clinch knot the same that I tie all of my other flies as well as any other lure I throw when I'm not fly fishing, so im not sure why they did not stay on. Do larger flies require a different type of knot? thanks guys!
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Old 10-26-2012, 09:19 PM
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Default Re: Knot for larger flies

Clinch knots can slip. Try a uni knot. They don't slip. This is assuming its knot slippage that's the problem. If its abrasion, then maybe you need heavier tippet for the larger fly. That's usually the case. Match the tippet to the fly size.
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Old 10-26-2012, 09:35 PM
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Default Re: Knot for larger flies

Do you use a simple clinch or the improved clinch where you pass the tag back through the first loop? The improved clinch should not fail unless it isn't cinched properly, even if you're tying on a 2/0 fly to 5x tippet or something equally ridiculous. Pull the tag upward along the main line as you pull on the fly to get a good tight knot. However, when using clousers, try using a non-slip mono loop, it will allow the clouser to get a better jigging action in the water and it is quite strong as well.
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Old 10-26-2012, 09:41 PM
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Default Re: Knot for larger flies

Quote:
Originally Posted by gatortransplant View Post
Do you use a simple clinch or the improved clinch where you pass the tag back through the first loop? The improved clinch should not fail unless it isn't cinched properly, even if you're tying on a 2/0 fly to 5x tippet or something equally ridiculous. Pull the tag upward along the main line as you pull on the fly to get a good tight knot. However, when using clousers, try using a non-slip mono loop, it will allow the clouser to get a better jigging action in the water and it is quite strong as well.
Yep. That one.
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:02 PM
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Default Re: Knot for larger flies

And to elaborate, use the non-slip mono loop on all streamers if the fish aren't leader shy (it represents double the material in front of your fly so its no bueno for leader-shy fish but this isn't usually the case with streamer fishing anyway sooo...). Also use it for poppers, it really helps in this situation. And even nymphs that you are imparting action to... its a great knot. But I still love my improved clinch I very rarely depart from my usual four knots: perfection loop, blood knot, improved clinch, non-slip mono loop.
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:04 PM
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Default Re: Knot for larger flies

After sticking to the improved clinch knot for the majority of my fly fishing years, I learned the non slip and used it recently. Excellent knot to know. Adding the non slip to my repertoire gives me the same 4 as you gator. You are pretty much covered with those 4 knots. Only other one to round them out is the nail knot. One I rarely use, but always good to know.
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Old 10-27-2012, 12:09 AM
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Default Re: Knot for larger flies

Fly fisher's knots - Illustrations of the best knots for your flylines, leaders and tippets - Global FlyFisher note the Trilene knot, the Palomar and the Improved Clinch. use the Trilene or the Palomar when the hook eye is large enough to thread through twice and the Orvis when just once has to do it. Avoid the Clinch and Improved Clinch as these are weaker by comparison. My tests which I ran on mono back in the 90s showed the clinch averaging around 60%, the Improved Clinch up a bit from that in the 69% area and the Trilene and Palomar both at well over 90% of line strength. I didn't test the Orvis but the fellow with whom I was discussing these tests with on the old Flyfishing Review forum was Bill Nash, now sadly deceased and author of a superb text on Knots strengths and testing. His test results back then approximated mine with these knots. Settle on either the Trilene or Palomar and the Orvis and you won't be losing fish due to hook size or a weak knot.
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Old 10-27-2012, 11:04 AM
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Default Re: Knot for larger flies

Quote:
However, when using clousers, try using a non-slip mono loop, it will allow the clouser to get a better jigging action in the water and it is quite strong as well.
Quote:
And to elaborate, use the non-slip mono loop on all streamers if the fish aren't leader shy (it represents double the material in front of your fly so its no bueno for leader-shy fish but this isn't usually the case with streamer fishing anyway sooo...). Also use it for poppers, it really helps in this situation. And even nymphs that you are imparting action to... its a great knot.
Same here! I use a lot of big flies, and a non slip loop knot for most fishing. Bass, panfish & Striped bass are not usually leader shy so that's a non-issue for me.

Also agree with lightline about tippets. Often I'm using 20lb test mono, because of the larger flies & it helps with abrasion.

One other consideration you may want to check too. Some hooks will not have the eye closed properly. I've had this issue a few times, and if the tippet gets in that small gap, often it will pinch the tippet causing it to slip through or break. So, check the hook eyes to be sure they're closed completely. If you're tying your own flies, then a partially open hook eye can be closed with tying thread when finishing the fly.
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Old 10-27-2012, 02:28 PM
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Default Annimated Knot Demo's

I have been using this knot ever since it was demoed to me in 1994, just go to the link and choose 'Orvis Knot' at the top right. For tiny leaders I use 3 passes through the loop, for 12 pound & heavier just 2 passes. Orvis_Knots

My fishing is very simple now and has been since I adopted this as my way to attach flies. I connect my leader loops with a Perfection Loop and 'if' I have a break, it is always at the loop connection. In other words I don't lose flies, I lose whole leaders. To me this says something very clear, the knot on the fly holds stronger than the Perfection Loop that connects the leader to my fly line.

Everyone has their favorite knots and I understand that when you go after blue water fish you need a full repertoire of knots. However if you are trout or salmon fishing with dries - big wet flies, the knot I use will make fishing life pretty simple. There are plenty of things in life to complicate almost every day it seems, don't let it be attaching a fly to a line
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Old 10-27-2012, 03:10 PM
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Default Re: Knot for larger flies

I fish about 90% of the time with my wife.

My fly knot: Orvis knot (just like ^^) It's a superb knot, and I've now confirmed (after getting snagged in rocks) that my orvis tippet to fly knot is stronger than the uni/uni further up on the leader! Think I'll switch to triple surgeons permanently....

My wife's knot: Improved clinch -- all she will use. She does fine and seems to tie it really well. I do NOT, so I don't use it. I've read that clinch knots are weaker if you are using light tippet to large hook eyes...so beware of that on bigger flies.

Like everyone else mentioned, use a sufficiently heavy tippet for clousers or other medium/large subsurface flies. I think that people coming in from a "trout" background far, far underline subsurface flies when it's not necessary or beneficial. I fish #6 and 8 clouser minnows on a 8 pound mono tippet -- never smaller, and a 10#-15 pound mono would probably be just as good or better in heavier cover. I recently fished Mossy Creek, VA (a technical spring trout stream with a LOT of stuff to hang yourself up) with 8# tippet against the common "wisdom" of using 5x-6x! It is so taboo to use such heavy tippet that I am afraid to tell anyone here locally. That said, I did fine and caught a few fish without problem. I did hang up and the heavier line was much better at getting "un-hung" out there too.

Personally, I think the "divide your fly by 3" equation is useless for anything but trout dry flies. I've read "divide by 4" for subsurface flies, which is much more realistic for me, but even that underestimates IMO when you add lead weighted flies into the equation. If you use a 6X tippet on a 6 weight rod -- sure, you may get more bites. But good luck landing the fish or even playing it properly on the rod without breaking your tippet. What's the point?

Just my opinion! I hope this helps.
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