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Old 11-19-2012, 08:22 PM
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Default Re: copper john

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Originally Posted by jaybo41 View Post
Jackster, wow that is a great looking fly! VERY nice tie! Two different colors of wire really adds to a nice segmented look in those CJ's and other similar flies.

Avs, I don't want to speak to how Jackster did it, but tying a fly with a wire body is the perfect time to take advantage of that rotary feature you have with your vise. I tied up some wire bodied stones a few years back and I discovered while doing so the rotary feature made it soooo easy to keep the wraps nice and tight.
So it is wierd, If I tie a plain fly like a brassie, and use the rotary vise they turn out great.They are a tad oblong due to running the wire the length of the hook shank. When I do two wire colors, ie hot wire prince it gets more oblong due to the extra piece of wire. For some reason when I do lead wraps on a copper john it just gets worse x1000, I am talking throw them away ugly
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:24 PM
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Default Re: copper john

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Originally Posted by comeonavs View Post
How do you get it so uniform. I really strugge if I use lead wraps under the thorax I get a really deformed body. If I dont use lead it is better but I get an oblong shape to the body from running the wire down the hook shanks.
1) what size wires did you use in this pic
2) Do you tie your copper wires in to the beadhead or at like the 75% point of the hook
3) Do you run them along the sides of the hook shank or underneath
Man I only hope mine lood 3/4 as good as yours in the future
Just like a good paint job, prep is the key. Take your time making sure to build a good, smooth and tapered underbody with thread. It makes the wire not only look decent but helps it behave while being wrapped.
For lead I only use a couple wraps pushed into the bead to help trap the bead without the need to use a whole lot of tying thread.
I run the wire into or flush with the bead on the underside of the hook. Cover the tag of wire with a smooth layer of thread and really secure the wire with thread where you will kink the wire before starting your wire wraps forward. Someone taught me to leave the thread hanging at the hook bend while you make the wire wraps, allowing the wire to advance the thread to just shy of the bead. Maybe it's because I allow the wire to advance the thread but I usually wrap by hand leaving the rotation feature to inspect as I go.
That picture has quite a few miles on it. It was tied long enough ago that it's anyones guess what size wire I used! Sorry.
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:26 AM
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Default Re: copper john

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackster View Post
Just like a good paint job, prep is the key. Take your time making sure to build a good, smooth and tapered underbody with thread. It makes the wire not only look decent but helps it behave while being wrapped.
For lead I only use a couple wraps pushed into the bead to help trap the bead without the need to use a whole lot of tying thread.
I run the wire into or flush with the bead on the underside of the hook. Cover the tag of wire with a smooth layer of thread and really secure the wire with thread where you will kink the wire before starting your wire wraps forward. Someone taught me to leave the thread hanging at the hook bend while you make the wire wraps, allowing the wire to advance the thread to just shy of the bead. Maybe it's because I allow the wire to advance the thread but I usually wrap by hand leaving the rotation feature to inspect as I go.
That picture has quite a few miles on it. It was tied long enough ago that it's anyones guess what size wire I used! Sorry.
Thank you, I really do appreciate you taking time to answer my question.

I am on vacation this week so if I get the lights hung in time I am going to try to get this done correctly
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:59 PM
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Default Re: copper john

I don't know if you are using lead wire or not, but adhesive lead tape cut in 2mm strips works great for creating a smooth underbody.
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:10 PM
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Default Re: copper john

If you have small, I took Gold and Silver and twisted it together then wrapped

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:22 PM
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Default Re: copper john

So I tied 3 up today, sorry cant upload pics since my HP desktop blue screened on me I am working off my Ipad (HP + huge pile).

I did as you guys instructed and also used small size wire instead of brassie running it under the hook and quite frankly I think they look great. Now if I can get the biot tails to look half as good as Jackster's and Joni's I will be real happy.


For the tails I have relegated my self to crossing them like an X but obviously not in the middle. Fron there I hold it to the side of the hook and as I wrap them in it cinches to the top of the shank. The way you guys get them on the sde curved out looks so much better.


My wife has realized I am tying flies not to fish but cause OCD makes me want them perfect. I will fish them however

---------- Post added at 10:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:20 PM ----------

Sometimes being obsessive pays off, I would fish this and be proud to say I tied it. Sorry bout the crappy pic, taken with my ipad

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:20 PM
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Default Re: copper john

Lookin' good, avs!
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:24 AM
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Default Re: copper john

Comeonavs: You might take a look at Charlie Craven's SBS for tying the biots on, he has a few tips to get them on straight with a slight flare.
Charlie's FlyBox - Colorado's Best FlyShop and online Fly Tying Tutorials

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Old 11-21-2012, 05:06 PM
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Default Re: copper john

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnerney View Post
Comeonavs: You might take a look at Charlie Craven's SBS for tying the biots on, he has a few tips to get them on straight with a slight flare.
Charlie's FlyBox - Colorado's Best FlyShop and online Fly Tying Tutorials

Larry
Thanks ,

I tried Charlie's methods and it helped but in a different thread someone turned me on to Dave McPhail ( probably just butchered his name) and that helped so I sort of played around enough after seeing both they finally worked
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Old 11-21-2012, 07:27 PM
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Default Re: copper john

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Originally Posted by comeonavs View Post

Click the image to open in full size.
Looks good, what size hook and bead did I you use?

Last edited by cowpokey; 11-21-2012 at 07:29 PM. Reason: IPad...
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