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Old 12-15-2012, 11:03 PM
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Default Shoot Off Of Barbed/De-Barbed Hooks

In light of the conversation about barbed v. de-barbed can anyone fill me in on the reasons why some states and various locations have issued "barbless areas?" More of a 'what is the administration rationalization' behind such a law? A lot of times agencies or legislation have to give their reasons behind decisions and am wondering if its based on science or public policy?
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Old 12-15-2012, 11:14 PM
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Default Re: Shoot Off Of Barbed/De-Barbed Hooks

Hey there,

I can't answer that but welcome to the forum, I hope you will continue posting and becoming a part of the discussion here. Your post here demonstrates that you may be with us for awhile. Good post,

Ard
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:09 AM
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Default Re: Shoot Off Of Barbed/De-Barbed Hooks

Barbless areas are usually catch and release only areas, barbless does less damage to the fish.
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:51 AM
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Default Re: Shoot Off Of Barbed/De-Barbed Hooks

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Originally Posted by woodrivertroutbum View Post
Barbless areas are usually catch and release only areas, barbless does less damage to the fish.
Woodriver,

thanks, I kinda figured that a catch and release only area would definitely have those restrictions. I was wondering though if the FWP/FG had any justifications for that kind of restriction? The previous threads about barb or no barb seem to say that the jury is still out on what is "best" for fish.
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Old 12-16-2012, 07:36 AM
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Default Re: Shoot Off Of Barbed/De-Barbed Hooks

In the spring here on the 'chi we have a barbless restriction to give the black salmon a chance to release themselves.
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:42 AM
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Default Re: Shoot Off Of Barbed/De-Barbed Hooks

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Originally Posted by long bow View Post
I was wondering though if the FWP/FG had any justifications for that kind of restriction? The previous threads about barb or no barb seem to say that the jury is still out on what is "best" for fish.
As you have seen on other threads, some people believe there is justification for it while others say the justification is sketchy. Some debarb everything, while I've read others who say it makes it worse for the fish, especially with large hooks. Some will likely post links to information on research / writings for both sides of the issue. Often the discussion leads to conflicting experts, though it can be interesting reading. If your question is about the reasons for FWP/FG decisions, you might have some success contacting your local folks and seeing what they say their reasoning is. Different states and provinces may have different reasons and decisions for specific streams may be based more on lobby group's pressure on politicians than on reason.
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:57 AM
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Default Re: Shoot Off Of Barbed/De-Barbed Hooks

Gill-net shift, barbless hooks, single sturgeon limit approved by Oregon for lower Columbia, tributary angling | OregonLive.com

Here's an article on the non-Tribal gillnet ban from the Lower Columbia. Sports fishers must use barbless hooks for Salmon and Steelhead as part of the agreement.
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:17 PM
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Default Re: Shoot Off Of Barbed/De-Barbed Hooks

Quote:
Originally Posted by woodrivertroutbum View Post
Barbless areas are usually catch and release only areas, barbless does less damage to the fish.
Exactly. Or to expand just a bit (thinking Steelhead and Salmon) you may not be able to keep a 'Native fish' so the barbless allows for a quick/clean get-away at release.

What 'ticks me off' is save for very large (1/0 to 4/0 for salmon) or very small (10's and 12's) they're damned near impossible to find. 'Allenfly' just posted up barbless size 10 and 12 and put a note over to Justin asking if he was going to carry size 4 to 8's for Steelhead sized flies.

He's looking into that.
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:05 PM
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Default Re: Shoot Off Of Barbed/De-Barbed Hooks

The biggest factor in mortality with barbed vs. barbless in Salmonoids is probably the time it takes to get a barbed hook out vs. barbless. These are fish that do not do well if held out of water for a surprisingly small amount of time. In most fly size hooks, the damage done is hardly worth mentioning the difference. Once you get up to bigger hooks like you would have on a big spey fly or something there can be a reasonably detectable damage amount difference. If you can unhook the fish while in the net and it's head in the water you will do more for saving the fish than going barbless. In the best study I ever saw on it, the mortality rate difference was probably within the margin of error. You have to keep in mind there a large number of factors involved in survival rates.
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:18 PM
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Default Re: Shoot Off Of Barbed/De-Barbed Hooks

Quote:
The biggest factor in mortality with barbed vs. barbless in Salmonoids is probably the time it takes to get a barbed hook out vs. barbless. These are fish that do not do well if held out of water for a surprisingly small amount of time.
I agree with your second sentence above completely, Dan - especially as the water warms. And the first makes sense too.

But I wonder if a study were done where those using barbless hooks switched with all those using barbed hooks (assuming a difference in mortality rate) whether the mortality rate would follow the angler group and not the type of hook used. Personally, I suspect that mortality rates would follow the group, not the hook type.

I say this because I think the majority of anglers (edit) voluntarily using barbless do so primarily for exactly the reason you said - they want to get the fish back on its way quickly, and are generally acutely aware of the proper ways to handle (and indeed, fight) fish as well.

Whereas the barbed hook group may not universally hold those tenets formost on its priority list. For sure there are lots of exceptions, Silver.

Just a thought to ponder.
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