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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 01-19-2013, 02:30 PM
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Default Re: Tippet knots

I use blood knots all the way down because they are a way stronger knot than a surgeons. The only exception is if I use a heavy bite tippet. Then I make a bimini twist with the test tippet. Cut the end of the loop in the double line and lightly furl it. I tie an overhand in the end just to keep it furled till it's tied in. Then I take my bite tippet and fold over about and inch or an inch and a half. I then Albright knot the furled double line to the bite tippet so the knot in the Bimini is about 5 or 6 inches from the Albright knot and then blood knot the single line in the rig to my leader. I have had these tested on a machine and break right where the test tippet is supposed to.

Once you get a bit practiced at doing blood knots they are not hard. WJC can do it behind his back.

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Old 01-19-2013, 03:53 PM
 
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Default Re: Tippet knots

I use a blood knot EXCEPT when I am tying mono and fluoro together. I have had blood knots fail when combining the two materials. I think the reason is that mono is softer than fluoro AND mono absorbs water. When mono absorbs water, it swells and the harder fluoro cuts through the softer mono.

I have also had a two turn surgeon's knot fail when combining the two materials. I use the three turn surgeon's knot for tying mono to fluoro and it has held for me.

A dry knot test is does not test what actually occurs while fishing, IMHO.

"In reality, nylon monofilament will absorb up to about 10% of its weight in water. Water absorption is a mixed blessing. On the upside, nylon monofilament that has absorbed water becomes more limp and supple, and makes knot tying easier. On the downside, water-logged nylon monofilament swells, increasing its diameter, reducing its break strength by about 20% (i.e., 10-pound test becomes 8-pound), and increasing its elongation (stretch) by 25% to 30%."

Fluorocarbon vs. Nylon | Fly Fish America

Why then don't I use a triple turn surgeons's knot all the time? I am kind of a perfectionist. The blood knot is a smaller knot and the two lines are not offset from one another as with a surgeons knot. I realize that this has little effect on fishing, but just looks better. I consider it one of my idiosyncrasies.
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Old 01-19-2013, 04:13 PM
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Default Re: Tippet knots

Blood knots for me, I like the slim profile and am satisfied with the strength of them. Even when I tie fluoro to mono I try to make size the fluoro 2 sizes down, it's not perfect, but it seems to be fairly reliable for trout. I don't like bulky knots.

For those that tie fluoro tippet to mono leaders, what kinds of knots do you use? I know tippet rings are an option but I'm not enamored with them.
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:51 PM
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Default Re: Tippet knots

I don't agree with Diver Dan here -- I've read nothing that suggests blood knots are stronger than a surgeons, and most of what I've read suggests the opposite. in "knot wars" (a testing done by berkley -- look on youtube) they supposedly put the blood knot against a uni to uni, and the uni knot won......

That said, it's all a **** shoot. I suspect that the stronger one is whichever you tie better. All of these will hold up extremely well to fighting fish and provided you set your drag correctly and knot how to fight a fish properly, you will be the one deciding whether you land it or not.
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:58 PM
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Default Re: Tippet knots

Recently started using Tippet Rings with good success. Attach leader and tippet using improved clinch knot. Really saves loosing leader from tying knots. Another plus is just clipping off the tippet and tying another on instead of tying another tippet to tippet.
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:49 PM
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Default Re: Tippet knots

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbineblade View Post
I don't agree with Diver Dan here -- I've read nothing that suggests blood knots are stronger than a surgeons, and most of what I've read suggests the opposite. in "knot wars" (a testing done by berkley -- look on youtube) they supposedly put the blood knot against a uni to uni, and the uni knot won......

That said, it's all a **** shoot. I suspect that the stronger one is whichever you tie better. All of these will hold up extremely well to fighting fish and provided you set your drag correctly and knot how to fight a fish properly, you will be the one deciding whether you land it or not.
Well what ever they said is nonsense. I have had the IGFA and the Fresh Water Fishing Hall of Fame both test my leaders on a machine and give me what my leaders broke at. None test under what I have my test tippet at. NONE. I have had them do it 18 Times now. None that I asked about ever broke at a knot. Furthermore, when I break flies off on snags, They virtually never break at the knot either. Now that proves they are 100% knots. I also know for a fact that surgeons knots are not. I'm not sure what the triple is, but the double is maybe 80% at best.

Also, my friend and I tested something with a good scale that knot wars did and we found they were wrong. Not just wrong, but wrong by a lot. So with this that you are saying, I would put knot wars at 0 for 2 in what I have heard.

P.S. I stopped using Berkely line for anything years ago because it is unreliable line. Their lousy line may have something to do with their lousy results. That is except Fireline. I have trolling rods spooled with it because I can reliably put a lure just off the bottom and do it deeper than with mono. Other than that I consider Berkely a waste of money.
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Old 01-19-2013, 07:29 PM
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Default Re: Tippet knots

Uh, okay Dan . Sounds good.

I have no reason to doubt it -- did you test any other knots out of curiosity? I mean besides the triple surgeons. Though I've not had problems with the triple surgeons, I have to stretch the **** out of the leader due to the non-linear way it connects lines. I'll admit the blood knot is probably the most straight I've seen.

Also, do you use blood knots for connecting lines with different diameters?

Also - I get that a test by berkley "testers" is probably not a highly scientific test of line breaking strength more than it is a test of the breaking strength of berkely lines, tied by that beared berkley guy. I get that. But that said, a lot of people have access to it -- and I personally don't know you. I do believe you, but just keep this in mind since your post almost borders on suggesting that a person would be "dumb" by putting any faith into berkley whenever it's not like there are a lot of alternatives, and everyone on this forum is essentially a "random person on the internet".
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:04 PM
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Default Re: Tippet knots

I agree with Dan simply because it works in real life and has for many decades. I use bloods,and biminis because there are too many other things to go wrong. Another weak link is the factory looped ends on fly lines, do yourselfs a favor and cut them off and use three nail knots on you loop and you won't lose fish becuse of a loop being pulled out. I think it's more of a personal choice of what knot to use in what aplication if we are talking about small fish.
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:14 PM
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Default Re: Tippet knots

I am the same as most of these guys I like surgeon, it works and is a simple knot if you are tying it out on the stream.


Here is a good site I use thought to learn new knots.

Animated Knots by Grog | How to Tie Knots | Fishing, Boating, Climbing, Scouting, Search and Rescue, Household, Decorative, Rope Care,
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:27 PM
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Default Re: Tippet knots

Quote:
Another weak link is the factory looped ends on fly lines, do yourselfs a favor and cut them off and use three nail knots on you loop and you won't lose fish becuse of a loop being pulled out.
I hate factory fly line loops, but I don't use nail knots for the same reason Dan doesn't use a surgeons knot: They fail simply based upon the crappy nature of how the knot secures on top of the line. For the life of me, I don't know how nail knots became popular -- they're mechanically....stupid in principle. I've had 2 fail me by stripping the fly line coating on 2 different of my lines (cold, more soft coated lines). I probably feel the same about nail knots as Dan might about the surgeons.

I use a castwell knot (sheet bend variation) and have landed some good fish on my tackle and have never had it fail. I am 100% confident in it, and I have little to no faith in nail knots. This is kind of disappointing, because I enjoy tying nail knots and think they look cool.

The only "negative" is something I actually don't consider a negative, but the knot is of course more bulky than the nail knot. That said, I don't fish ridiculously long leaders and I don't really have a need for leader knots to go through my guides when fighting a fish. Honestly, a nail knot hangs up just about the same as the castwell, so I don't think it's much of a difference anyway.

Needleknot may be better....but again, I don't care. I don't need slim knots.
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