The North American Fly Fishing Forum


Go Back   The North American Fly Fishing Forum > General Fly Fishing Discussion > General Discussion

General Discussion General discussions regarding fly fishing as a whole. Ask questions. Get answers...

Like Tree9Likes
  • 3 Post By mcnerney
  • 1 Post By littledavid123
  • 2 Post By wt bash
  • 1 Post By dabluz
  • 2 Post By kglissmeyer1

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 01-19-2013, 01:41 AM
nickel's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Stockton, CA
Posts: 72
nickel will become famous soon enoughnickel will become famous soon enough
Default Tiny dancer

General question and insight...I was fishing a nice mayfly hatch with drys and emergers tied on tiemco sz. 20 hooks if I remember correctly model 8427BL. Though I brought to hand a good amount of fish I also came unbuttoned quite a bit! I missed alot on the set and lost alot after the set. Does anyone come across this problem with small hooks? Also I was a little over gunned with my legend elite 9' 5wt which many may know is a fast action rod but does have a decent soft tip. Looking for some input on hook size and rod action as it may relate to hookups! I'm definitely going to bring my 8'6 4wt ultra which is a little softer on Tues. and see if theres a better hookset ratio. This hatch always goes on this time of year on this river same section.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 01-19-2013, 08:07 AM
mcnerney's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pinedale, WY
Posts: 12,751
Blog Entries: 36
mcnerney has a reputation beyond reputemcnerney has a reputation beyond reputemcnerney has a reputation beyond reputemcnerney has a reputation beyond reputemcnerney has a reputation beyond reputemcnerney has a reputation beyond reputemcnerney has a reputation beyond reputemcnerney has a reputation beyond reputemcnerney has a reputation beyond reputemcnerney has a reputation beyond reputemcnerney has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Tiny dancer

That is pretty much what I experience with that kind of setup. Personally I don't like going that small on hook size unless I'm fishing over really pressured fish......San Juan River, Miracle Mile come to mind! If you tie your own flies, you can tie a size 20 fly on a size 18 hook. The other thing that I have noticed is that I have better results fishing with small gear when I'm using a mid-flex rod or full flex. I definitely like your thought on bring your 8'6 4wt ultra which is a little softer and as an experiment I'd first stick with the 20's and see how you do. Please report back after your Tues outting.....I'm curious what you find.
imxer, jaybo41 and littledavid123 like this.
__________________
Larry

Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 01-19-2013, 08:28 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 2,329
littledavid123 has a reputation beyond reputelittledavid123 has a reputation beyond reputelittledavid123 has a reputation beyond reputelittledavid123 has a reputation beyond reputelittledavid123 has a reputation beyond reputelittledavid123 has a reputation beyond reputelittledavid123 has a reputation beyond reputelittledavid123 has a reputation beyond reputelittledavid123 has a reputation beyond reputelittledavid123 has a reputation beyond reputelittledavid123 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Tiny dancer

I fought a similar problem when fishing for brookies with a Helios 9' 5wt. Getting lots of hookups but quickly loosing the fish. Started tying the same size nymph on a larger gaped hook. Thinking back, hard to remember if the strikes went down or not, but fish to hand went way up. Not at home to look at the hook for a specific model but it was a Tiemco.

Dave
mcnerney likes this.
__________________
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. "
Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 01-19-2013, 08:45 AM
wt bash's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Akron Ohio (don't let that fool you)
Posts: 1,988
wt bash has a brilliant futurewt bash has a brilliant futurewt bash has a brilliant futurewt bash has a brilliant futurewt bash has a brilliant futurewt bash has a brilliant futurewt bash has a brilliant futurewt bash has a brilliant futurewt bash has a brilliant futurewt bash has a brilliant futurewt bash has a brilliant future
Default Re: Tiny dancer

Did you mean 2487BL? Either way its just part of fishing small. You can do it with the faster stuff but like many I prefer softer action rods and a lot of side pressure.
imxer and mcnerney like this.
__________________
Oh I live to be the ruler of life not a slave
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2013, 12:11 AM
dabluz's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Chicoutimi, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 131
dabluz has a spectacular aura aboutdabluz has a spectacular aura aboutdabluz has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: Tiny dancer

You are simply striking too soon. When using very small flies on very light tippet, trout will not spit the fly out. I even wait until I see the leader start to move before striking the fish. It's not a question of the rod or line but the fisherman.

I am not rich. I only had 1 fly rod....a size 7....until I won a another rod recently....a size 9. I make my own flies and I have used small flies down to size 28 on a 3/4 lb test tippet with my 7 weight rod for large brook trout (17 to 23 inches). If my strike/catch ratio was missing more than 1 trout in 10....I would really start asking myself some serious questions.
kayo likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2013, 11:15 AM
jaybo41's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: On a trout stream/Suburban Pittsburgh
Posts: 2,516
Blog Entries: 1
jaybo41 has a reputation beyond reputejaybo41 has a reputation beyond reputejaybo41 has a reputation beyond reputejaybo41 has a reputation beyond reputejaybo41 has a reputation beyond reputejaybo41 has a reputation beyond reputejaybo41 has a reputation beyond reputejaybo41 has a reputation beyond reputejaybo41 has a reputation beyond reputejaybo41 has a reputation beyond reputejaybo41 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Tiny dancer


Sorry, had to do it.

I agree with Larry's and david's posts. I often tie patterns sized smaller on a larger hook and much prefer large gape hooks. I think we all have our preferences in rods and action in general and for specific types of flies, but in general I employ the mindset that if I am missing fish it's me that's doing something wrong, not my equipment. Assuming of course I don't have an equipment failure of some sort.

As for the hook, I'm thinking 2457 or 2487 hook? The 2488 hook has the wider gap, straight eye. I really like these ones in the 2488H (heavy). Daiichi also has some good ones, the 1150 which are also excellent.
__________________
~*~Leave only your footprints~*~

Last edited by jaybo41; 01-20-2013 at 02:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2013, 11:43 AM
osok's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Huffman, TX (Houston Area)
Posts: 131
osok will become famous soon enoughosok will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Tiny dancer

I've at times had a problem with losing fish and then next trip not losing as many. I'm sure it's operator error, but the post about using a larger gap drew my interest. I've been losing the fish mostly when using a Mustad C49S. Well I recently purchased some J. Stockard 500 series hooks and they have a larger gap. Will be interesting to see if my landing ratio increases. Then the question will be is it the hook or the operator?
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2013, 02:31 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 2,329
littledavid123 has a reputation beyond reputelittledavid123 has a reputation beyond reputelittledavid123 has a reputation beyond reputelittledavid123 has a reputation beyond reputelittledavid123 has a reputation beyond reputelittledavid123 has a reputation beyond reputelittledavid123 has a reputation beyond reputelittledavid123 has a reputation beyond reputelittledavid123 has a reputation beyond reputelittledavid123 has a reputation beyond reputelittledavid123 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Tiny dancer

Quote:
Originally Posted by dabluz View Post
You are simply striking too soon. When using very small flies on very light tippet, trout will not spit the fly out. I even wait until I see the leader start to move before striking the fish. It's not a question of the rod or line but the fisherman.

I am not rich. I only had 1 fly rod....a size 7....until I won a another rod recently....a size 9. I make my own flies and I have used small flies down to size 28 on a 3/4 lb test tippet with my 7 weight rod for large brook trout (17 to 23 inches). If my strike/catch ratio was missing more than 1 trout in 10....I would really start asking myself some serious questions.
A 10 to 1 ratio, that is amazing.

Dave
__________________
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. "
Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2013, 04:45 PM
nickel's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Stockton, CA
Posts: 72
nickel will become famous soon enoughnickel will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Tiny dancer

So yesterday I returned to the river with the nice little consistent hatch this time of year and sure enough like clock work...hatch going off around high noon. This time determined to redeem myself from last Tuesday (though I don't really count how many I catch because I don't need to stoke my ego it was a very productive day none the less with a few missed strikes and hooksets here and there) I lined up my 8'6'' 4wt ultra with ross 1.5 vexsis and rio trout LT and headed to the water. I would say I noticed a difference not only in hooksets but my presentations were far more on target and consistent. The only reason I didn't fish this setup in the past on this river is because usually nymphing is the name of the game and your throwing SSG goose shot or AAA split on 1'' indicators to get the offerings ticking off the bottom. So due to the aforementioned reason I always fish my 9' 5wt elite. All in all a great day on the river.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2013, 05:54 PM
kglissmeyer1's Avatar
Senior Member

 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Rigby, ID
Posts: 1,337
Blog Entries: 1
kglissmeyer1 has a reputation beyond reputekglissmeyer1 has a reputation beyond reputekglissmeyer1 has a reputation beyond reputekglissmeyer1 has a reputation beyond reputekglissmeyer1 has a reputation beyond reputekglissmeyer1 has a reputation beyond reputekglissmeyer1 has a reputation beyond reputekglissmeyer1 has a reputation beyond reputekglissmeyer1 has a reputation beyond reputekglissmeyer1 has a reputation beyond reputekglissmeyer1 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Tiny dancer

Well, some interesting replies, especially the striking too soon conundrum. Much in our hooking and landing of fish has to do with timing, but there is something you can do to improve your odds. If you look at a regular Tiemco 100 dry fly hook in size 20 or 22, the hook gape (or gape to some) is very, very narrow and if you can imagine to yourself the very small amount of fish flesh that the hook actually grabs with such a small space - let alone the timing issues - you realize you are lucky to land the fish at all once hooked.

While I haven't solved the problem completely, I think I have dramatically upped my chances of hookups as well as being able to play a well-hooked fish by changing the hooks I use for smaller offerings such as tricos. My solution is to use the Dai Riki 125 emerger hooks for most of my dry flies. Although they appear to have a scud-type shape to them, they really do tie up some splendid dry flies, especially tricos since they have a pretty short body to start with.

The 125's have a much wider gap thus increasing the ability to get a more solid hookup with much smaller hooks and fly sizes, especially in 18, 20, and 22's.

Here are a couple of examples of two of my dry fly patterns tied on the 125. Although they are much larger than tricos (Flav and mahogany duns), the concept is the same for smaller flies also:

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

In addition, I use a 'twisted' mono leader that has a fair amount of stretch to it upon the hook set as well as while playing the fish which I believe prevents break-offs a bit better, especially with the stiffer and faster rods available. I use a St. Croix Imperial in a 5wt which is fairly fast, yet I fish 5X and 6X tippets often, preferring the 5X most of the time. Rarely am I losing fish by breaking them off.

Give it a try.

Best Fishes,

Kelly.
jaybo41 and littledavid123 like this.
__________________
I fish, therefore I am - but I gotta go to work first..."piscari ergo sum"
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fishing Flies Yellow & Orange DANCERS Trout Rod Reel PackedUK Eight pack DANCER Ebay USA Fishing Flies 0 04-28-2012 08:00 PM
Fishing Flies Yellow & Orange DANCERS Trout Rod Reel PackedUK Eight pack DANCER Ebay USA Fishing Flies 0 04-25-2012 09:30 PM
Fishing Flies Yellow & Orange DANCERS Trout Rod Reel PackedUK Eight pack DANCER Ebay USA Fishing Flies 0 04-13-2012 07:20 PM
Fishing Flies Yellow & Orange DANCERS Trout Rod Reel PackedUK Eight pack DANCER Ebay USA Fishing Flies 0 03-20-2012 02:40 PM
Flash Dancer peregrines Fly Patterns 0 10-14-2010 10:13 PM













All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
2005-2014 The North American Fly Fishing Forum. All rights reserved.