Is it Ethical to Clear Deadfalls Over Holes?

[diamond rush]

I ran into an ethical dilemma fishing today. I drove out to one of my favorite holes. I only had an hour to fish so I specifically targeted one hole that I've had a lot of success with in the past. Unfortunately, a dead fall tree was overhanging the best part of the hole, making it very difficult to fish.

I was tempted to push over the dead tree so that it would not be in the way next time. This is on National Forest land, if that matters. So, where does "Leave no Trace" intersect improving the fishability of a stream?

I wound up not altering the hole, because I value exploring natural environments and prefer that over altered environments. I wouldn't fault anyone for making the opposite choice, though. A good friend of mine carries a saw for that express purchase when he fishes.

I'm curious to hear opinions on this.

 

[rockriver]

I'd leave it as it is. It just wouldn't be the same if someone cut out a dead fall and it'd feel different. Kind of like cheating on a exam I guess.

 

[theboz]

Dead is dead , do what you gotta do! Alive leave it be! Pretty simple!

 

[fyshstykr]

Obstacles are part of the game, leave it. Mother nature puts things where she wants and it's not our place to disturb them just to make things easier for us.

It's not our house, so don't rearrange the furniture.

 

[caseywise]

where i grew up in alaska there was, and still is, a great system of hiking trails. great trails that covered hundreds of miles through a multitude of lanscapes.
every spring a group of volunteers and park rangers would work through the entire system clearing deadfall and other obstructions.
nothing bad never came out of that
so i say if its an old dead peace of wood not doing anybody any good, move it.


casey

 

[jaybo41]

I'll leave the ethics to someone else but my opinion is leave it as it is. It will be a new challenge for you while fishing.

There are a couple of streams I fish that have had incredibly large deadfall on them that have been moved several hundred yards down the water by high water. At some point, that deadfall will get moved and you'll have access to the hole again as you had. When it gets washed, it might even help create another spot for you to fish. I enjoy going back to streams and paying attention to how far known objects have been flushed into the system.

 

[caseywise]

I'll leave the ethics to someone else but my opinion is leave it as it is. It will be a new challenge for you while fishing.

There are a couple of streams I fish that have had incredibly large deadfall on them that have been moved several hundred yards down the water by high water. At some point, that deadfall will get moved and you'll have access to the hole again as you had. When it gets washed, it might even help create another spot for you to fish. I enjoy going back to streams and paying attention to how far known objects have been flushed into the system.

good point jb.
i remember a decent hole i used to fish that was transformed into a magnificent hole after a 60 ft. cottonwood fell about 5 feet parallalel
to the opposite bank.
mother nature at her finest

i guess my previous post was more about getting to the stream and not the stream itself.


casey

 

[littledavid123]

The Lord gave us stewardship over the land, for me this means preserving the natural order he set in motion and repairing wherever possible that which we have harmed. The deadfall represents an opportunity to learn a new casting technique, thus using our gift of wisdom to practice good stewardship.

Dave

 

[Liphookedau]

Usually I would leave it alone however if it really needed moving,removing I would do so/have done in The Past especially if lots of junk from it was Falling into The Water & discolouring it &/or filling up The Hole,also if it's Toxic..
Brian.

 

[fredaevans]

A true story, and on point for the Thread opener.

Many, many years back a true story, but it makes the point. Think "Mill Creek."

A Japanese group wanted to develop a huge subdivision (golf course included) north of Seattle (Mill Creek to put a name to it). Working a 'deal' (straight forward from day one) with Rainier Bank. Doing what I did in at the time it was my job to go over the whole project, viable? Changes? Etc.

Candidly, the whole layout was an eye opener. From the first pen stroke to the end these folks were dead on. At that time, this was a major big bucks deal; like serious, serious money going on the line.

The 'Deal Clincher?'

One of the (younger Japanese) fellows asked me: 'Do you have fish here?'

Question took me right out of the blue. Answer was yes, and here's (thumbnail) of what we have in the way of Adrodomdus, (never could remember how to spell that fricking word :icon_roll) etc.

'May we go look?'

Drove up with rolls of plans on the back seat of my car and walked the ground. Comment about this, a change to think about there, etc. Towards the end we got to what would be the entrance area of this (HUGE) development and I just did an "Dear God!"

Total Dead End. Nothing could get by that short of having wings.

'How we fix?'

My first thought was 'He's kidding?'

Did a 'Well, this and that, because that will do that, etc.

Pulls out his camera and shoots a roll of film. Next day we're looking at 8x10 'clossies' and going over them with felt marker pens. Two days later we have the 'head guy,' or one of them from the Washington State Game Dept (and there was a County Guy of some sort) sitting around a coffee table.

State/County Guys go over all the permits, yada-yada (HUMUGUS!!) that you need to go through to ... bla-bla.

'If you do the work do you need all these permits?'

Eye-balls left and right ... and a 'soft no.'

'I don't care about cost; Start work in less than 60 days and Mr. Evans will reimburse you for your efforts.' He looks at me, I look at him and a nod.

Huge back hoe's ripping the **** out this blockage in about 45 days; job with rip-rap, et. al. was done in about 120. Mill creek has tonnes of spawning bed gravel poured into same, etc., and etc.

Got a call about 3 months later asking 'Where's our payment!!!!!:mad:'

Lost my temper: "You fuxking Idiot's haven't sent me the FUXKING BILLl!!! Cheque book is on my desk."

Whole thing cost close to a million dollars when a 'Million was real money.'

They did and a Cashier's Check was cut the same day.

But back to today; Salmon and Steelhead spawned in the middle of the Golf Course. I hope all that is properly maintained; no idea.

End game of all the above? You pull out what you must and leave the rest. All that 'stuff' is the fry nursery.

fae

 

[Guest1]

When the tree fell, nature did not care what direction it did. If the wind had been blowing the opposite direction we would not even be having this thread. The whole idea you can't move anything is rubbish. That kind of thinking leads to forest fires that burn out of control and homes that go with it. We are talking about a single tree and what direction it landed. If you can move, go for it.

 

[woodrivertroutbum]

I would leave it. Challenges are part of fishing. That is not only an obstacle to you, but it is protection for the fish from predatory birds.

 

[Meatco1]

When the tree fell, nature did not care what direction it did. If the wind had been blowing the opposite direction we would not even be having this thread. The whole idea you can't move anything is rubbish. That kind of thinking leads to forest fires that burn out of control and homes that go with it. We are talking about a single tree and what direction it landed. If you can move, go for it.

Couldn't have said it better!!

Respects,

Richard

 

[raindogt]

Easy to ride someone's coat-tails- especially when they have the clout that DDan does on these boards, but I couldn't agree more.

The dead fall is an arbitrary occurrence-- not some cosmological or teleological plan.

I say if it provides habitat, leave it--if it clutters move it.

 

[fredaevans]

A thought for your (Thread) consideration.

Mom Nature has been doing Her thing for something like 13 to 14.5 BILLION YEARS. Before we screwed it up there were millions of fish running in our rivers.

Where are we now?

:doh:

 

[rubberguy]

food for thought: if you had not fished this area before (with good results) , would you still be asking yourself the same question? :fishing:

 

[williamhj]

Unethical? I don't think so, really depends on how you want to fish. From what I saw in the first picture it looked like a challenge to get a fly under, but not impossible. Perhaps I didn't get a clear sense from the picture but I'd look at it as a challenge. Try different casts and angles, lose a bunch of flies. Someday, if I pulled a fish out it would feel great.

 

[fly_guy12955]

It's debris..forest debris to be sure,,but still debris. If someone discarded a dead washing machine in your fishing hole,,you'd move it. It would be trash,,debris. So if nature clogs my fishing hole,,,,,,,,I'm moving it. If the grand scheme of life doesn't wish their dead tree messed with,,they can fall it the other direction next time.

It's a dead stick in your fishing hole, not exactly the Burning Bush presented before Moses.

 

[woodrivertroutbum]

You say "your fishing hole" like is is entitled to fish it. Fae makes a great point, man is the eason our earth is as screwed up as it is. Sure moving a downed limb isn't going to end the world, but it wont help anything either.

To feel entitled to fishing a pool with no concern for the fish having protection is just selfish.

 

[sandfly]

I ran into an ethical dilemma fishing today. I drove out to one of my favorite holes. I only had an hour to fish so I specifically targeted one hole that I've had a lot of success with in the past. Unfortunately, a dead fall tree was overhanging the best part of the hole, making it very difficult to fish.

I was tempted to push over the dead tree so that it would not be in the way next time. This is on National Forest land, if that matters. So, where does "Leave no Trace" intersect improving the fishability of a stream?

I wound up not altering the hole, because I value exploring natural environments and prefer that over altered environments. I wouldn't fault anyone for making the opposite choice, though. A good friend of mine carries a saw for that express purchase when he fishes.

I'm curious to hear opinions on this.

from looking at the pic, where is this deadfall in the way. I could fish this hole with no problems...if you can not cast from where camera is and hit all the water you need to go for lessons...sorry i don't see a problem..