The North American Fly Fishing Forum


Go Back   The North American Fly Fishing Forum > General Fly Fishing Discussion > General Discussion

General Discussion General discussions regarding fly fishing as a whole. Ask questions. Get answers...

Like Tree23Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2013, 05:55 PM
FrankB2's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Southeast Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,757
FrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Leader Lengths

I've never liked knotless tapered leaders. Some do work better than others, but a knotted leader works much better for me (and lots of other anglers). For the past couple years, I've tied 7.5' 3X leaders. Most of my fishing is for warmwater species, and I'm using heavier flies. 3X tippet withstands abrasion better than 4X, and smallmouth dive for rocks when they're not leaping.

Here's the twist that makes the 7.5' 3X leader the one I have tied on. If I decide I need a longer leader, I'll just tie another foot or so of 3X tippet on. If I need a lighter tippet, I cut back the 3X, and add a 4X tippet. That extends my 7.5' 3X leader to a 9 foot or longer 4X. Need 5X tippet? Snip the 3X back, tie in a 6" section of 4X, and then add the 5X tippet. I'm using 5X for smaller flies, and perhaps spookier fish, so the extra length I gain is an added bonus. I do tie 9' knotted leaders in 3X and 4X, but rarely use them now.

Another benefit of knotted leaders is that sections can be replaced as needed. I get a wind knot every now and then, and simply replace that section of the leader. If you snag a knotless leader, and break it, you need to determine what diameter is at the new end. That's much easier with a knotted leader.

I read on forums that people get algae, soda cans, dead birds, etc sticking to the knots on a knotted leader. I can honestly say that has never been an issue for me, and I fish way too much. A couple of years ago, the Delaware River had clumps of algae floating throughout the water. This stuff was everywhere!!!! The only thing that caught any algae was the fly itself. It was so bad, that if you did catch a fish, it was covered with 2 pounds of algae by the time you landed it. I was hooking bluegills, and digging through a basketball-sized clump of salad to get to a little fish in the center!

P.S. I use blood knots on all sections of knotted leaders, even the tippet. A properly tied and TRIMMED blood knot is just a smooth bump.
Guest1 likes this.

Last edited by FrankB2; 03-05-2013 at 06:27 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #32 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2013, 06:17 PM
Guest1's Avatar
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Lake of the Woods/Rainy River Minnesota Canada border
Posts: 4,752
Guest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Leader Lengths

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankB2 View Post
I read on forums that people get algae, soda cans, dead birds, etc sticking to the knots on a knotted leader. I can honestly say that has never been an issue for me, and I fish way too much.
I agree. It has never been an issue for me either. If there was a dead feathered floater, I would seriously hope a knot got it before my fly did. I would say that was a plus not a negative.
FrankB2 likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #33 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2013, 06:25 PM
FrankB2's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Southeast Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,757
FrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Leader Lengths

If there was a dead feathered floater, I would seriously hope a knot got it before my fly did. I would say that was a plus not a negative.
That's too funny, Dan!!!
Reply With Quote
  #34 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2013, 08:39 PM
Guest1's Avatar
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Lake of the Woods/Rainy River Minnesota Canada border
Posts: 4,752
Guest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond reputeGuest1 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Leader Lengths

Thankyou! I'll be here all week, remember to tip your waiter!
Reply With Quote
  #35 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2013, 11:07 PM
dabluz's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Chicoutimi, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 131
dabluz has a spectacular aura aboutdabluz has a spectacular aura aboutdabluz has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: Leader Lengths

I make most of my leaders. I use knotted tapered leaders from 71/2 feet to 16 feet....depending on the size of the fly and wind. My knots don't pick up any debris because here in my region the water is very cool and algae is rare.

I do buy a few knot-less tapered leaders and when the tippets get short, I just add short lengths of leader material and tippets.

I use level leaders only when trolling.

I use the Ritz method of making my knotted tapered leaders. They turn over real nice and the leader material is easy to straighten out.
Reply With Quote
  #36 (permalink)  
Old 03-06-2013, 07:19 AM
turbineblade's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: NA
Posts: 763
turbineblade is just really niceturbineblade is just really niceturbineblade is just really niceturbineblade is just really nice
Default Re: Leader Lengths

3x tippet for bass?

If I were tying a tapered leader for bass (or any warm water species) I'd probably do a 20 > 15 > 8 pound mono (0.11 diameter = 0x) or even 10-12 pound mono.

3x tippet works to about 0.08 dia = 4 pound test. This is FAR smaller than is necessary for this target. I definitely take your word for it and I'm sure you've had plenty of success with it, but have you considered increasing your tippet size just to experiment? Shoot, I'll fish 8-10 pound mono along all kinds of snags on the bottom without worry .

The abrasion resistance you get going from 4x to 3x is nothing compared to what you'd get going from 3x to 8-10 pound mono!
Reply With Quote
  #37 (permalink)  
Old 03-06-2013, 07:58 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 78
fichy will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Leader Lengths

3x Orvis Super Strong is 8.5 lb., Mirage fluoro is 9.2. Most of the other tippet mfgs.s fall in this range. Are you just trolling here? It's a shame to have people new to the sport misinformed. I certainly will not respond to your replies again, though.
Reply With Quote
  #38 (permalink)  
Old 03-06-2013, 08:13 AM
FrankB2's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Southeast Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,757
FrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Leader Lengths

3X Tippet= 8.5lb test; 2X Tippet=10.7lb test. I use Umpqua brand material for the entire leader, but all the brands have roughly the same pound test.

There have been times that I've used 2X leaders, mostly because HUGE carp are very active in my local smallmouth stream, and have snapped off my Clouser or Wooly Bugger with ease. The problem is snags. The bottom of my favorite stream is filled with large rocks, and I often bounce my flies of the bottom. A 3X tippet requires a pretty good pull to break, and a 2X might break the tip of my 4 or 5 weight line. With a knotted leader, I cut off the 3X tippet section, and tie a 2X tippet to the other short 2X leader section. When I go back to 3X (which is usually quick), I snip off the 2X tippet, and tie onto the 2X leader section. Most leader formulas call for the last few sections to be 6" in length. I make my last two section 8" long, and that's enough to allow cutting and tying in new tippet without losing too much material.
Reply With Quote
  #39 (permalink)  
Old 03-06-2013, 12:33 PM
turbineblade's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: NA
Posts: 763
turbineblade is just really niceturbineblade is just really niceturbineblade is just really niceturbineblade is just really nice
Default Re: Leader Lengths

Quote:
3x Orvis Super Strong is 8.5 lb., Mirage fluoro is 9.2. Most of the other tippet mfgs.s fall in this range. Are you just trolling here? It's a shame to have people new to the sport misinformed. I certainly will not respond to your replies again, though.
No I'm not, are you?

3x (regardless of stated breaking strength) is typically 0.08" dia..which is relatively thin for bass. Most people tend to agree that warm water species are not leader shy, so it's an honest question. Tensile strength is not the same as abrasion resistance -- your 3x might be strong in breaking strength, but I highly doubt it is more abrasion resistant than even the cheapest 8 pound mono (0.11" dia). Braid suffers from this same problem, but that's a different story.

If you would argue that using 8-12 pound mono tippet for bass is "bad advice", then I'm sorry to say this, but you don't know what you're talking about. Both lefty Kreh and Tom Rosenbauer and dozens of other publications recommend that you do just that. In cases with a lot of aquatic vegetation and rocky structure, your advice (assuming this is your advice anyway) to use 3x tippet is "bad advice". I think Lefty advocates a level leader of 20 pound mono for bass in lily pads specifically.

Bass fishing isn't trout fishing dude.

To Frank: That actually makes a lot of sense. I was just curious, that's all. I used to fish smallies on a heddon torpedo (and other topwaters) using UL spin tackle with 4 pound test, mostly for smaller bass.
Reply With Quote
  #40 (permalink)  
Old 03-06-2013, 01:24 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 78
fichy will become famous soon enough
Default Re: Leader Lengths

Your're a waste of space dude.
turbineblade likes this.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Antique Vintage Ebisu Bamboo Fly Fishing Rod 2 lengths in one Ebay USA Vintage fly rods 0 11-06-2012 01:10 AM
Antique Vintage Ebisu Bamboo Fly Fishing Rod 2 lengths in one box Ebay USA Fly Rods for sale 0 10-30-2012 08:10 PM
Action and Lengths Best For Beginners. noreaster Fly Rods 14 10-09-2012 03:18 PM
Question- Leader Lengths/ Fly sizes???? JeffK General Discussion 8 07-11-2008 09:30 AM
Differnce in rod lengths JoshVanderMeer General Discussion 1 10-29-2007 12:44 PM













All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
2005-2014 The North American Fly Fishing Forum. All rights reserved.