totally confused on leader choice.

[dpreller]

ok guys im totally confused on whay leader to use. i have always used pretapered mono leaders but this year i was all set to give furled leaders a shot.then while listining to a seminar a guide was telling the virtues of hand tied harvey style leaders and how they land with lots of slack coils and can always be cut back and reworked if necessary. so if furled leaders are so great because they straighten out so nicely doesnt that then also reduce the amount of slack therby inviting more drag.ughh very confusing.

[williamhj]

Depends on the water you're fishing. If you have multiple current lanes moving at different speeds between you and your target then slack can help you get a brief drag free drift until the different currents straighten out the leader. I have no trouble introducing slack into my furled leader if I want using different casts, so don't find them to be a hindrance.

[raindogt]

Yes, I do think you are putting too much thought into this. (Is that what you were asking?) LOL J/K.

IMO, if a leader turns the fly over nicely, then it has done it's job.

While the guide is correct that with a hand tied leader, you can make adjustments and modifications-- I just want to fish. I'd rather not have 25 leader spools hanging off of every inch of my being. Nor do I want to have to carry a calculator to figure ratios and lengths of sections. I just want to fish.

I use a furled leader because, as mentioned, it does what I need it to. (I won't claim that I can make a leader do what I want it to do for a given situation) but I will say that I have never noticed a difference in drag (or slack, or pliability, or anything) from differing leaders. So, a furled lasts me all season (usually longer) and I just change tippet- quickly and easily. done and done. no fuss.

try one, if it doesn't work for you-- what are you out? $6.00? $7.00? If that is really hard to swallow, I will buy it from you. wash.

[dpreller]

no i dont care about the cost just want to use i think ill be most sucessful with. like you the simplicity of the furled leader is what made me want to try them. i figured all i have to do is change tippet and i can go from fishing medium size streamers and nymphs down to size 24 tricos just by changing tippet and dont have to carry 10 different leaders.

[raindogt]

I know you aren't worried about the cost. Just trying to put it into perspective. Also, upon re-reading my post, it could be mis-interpreted that I am being condescending- please don't read it that way. Sorry.

But, really, for the price of admission, try one. If you love it- it will be the best $10.00 you ever spent. If you don't like it, pass it to a buddy and you will get more than $10.00 worth of karma from the fishing gods....

The other thing I wanted to stress is (assuming you don't build your own leaders now)- until you do tie your own, they sound fun and rewarding. to me they became a chore- YMMV... Also, I'm pretty good with knots, but having 4 or 5 (or potentially more) knots between me and the trophy was/ is a little disconcerting. The last place I want my head is wondering if all of those knots are up to the task.

Also, for what it is worth, I rarely switch tippet (for different applications)-- sure they get short, or get nicked, or get used. But in my experience, a 4# flouro tippet will catch as many trout (perhaps not the absolute most weary trout-- but generally speaking...) even though it is a larger diameter than the equivalent 'tippet material'.

With warmwater species, I don't know that any of them are particularly 'line shy'.

Hope this helps.

[silver creek]

Originally Posted by dpreller

ok guys im totally confused on whay leader to use. i have always used pretapered mono leaders but this year i was all set to give furled leaders a shot.then while listining to a seminar a guide was telling the virtues of hand tied harvey style leaders and how they land with lots of slack coils and can always be cut back and reworked if necessary. so if furled leaders are so great because they straighten out so nicely doesnt that then also reduce the amount of slack therby inviting more drag.ughh very confusing.

You are correct.

Basically if you are using a furled leader, you are have a basic length for the furled portion of the leader and then you can tippet material.

Originally Posted by dpreller

no i dont care about the cost just want to use i think ill be most sucessful with. like you the simplicity of the furled leader is what made me want to try them. i figured all i have to do is change tippet and i can go from fishing medium size streamers and nymphs down to size 24 tricos just by changing tippet and dont have to carry 10 different leaders.

For the furled leader user that say standard leaders users have to change lengths, this is no different for a furled leader. To change the basic length less tippet material you need to swap the furled leader out. So lets be real.

If the situation demands a 12 foot leader using a 9 foot base and 3 feet of tippet, you are not going to use a 5 foot base furled leader with 7 feet of tippet. When I fish Hebgen Lake I sometimes have to use a 15 foot leader with 5X tippet. Neither a single length furled base leader or normal monofilament leader is not going to serve for that situation and for a basic 9 foot 5X leader.

It is best to think of furling as a method of tapering a leader which can differ in design, materials, and base lengths. If you never had to change that base length of a furled leaders, why are there so many length formulas?

I personally don't use furled leaders. I think I can mend better with a standard leader that has stiffer material at the butt. Furled leaders tend to spray water. If they ever get tangled they are a mess. If you have ever had a snag suddenly let go with a furled leader, you know what I mean.

I think you need to try a furled leader and make up your own mind. They have advantages and disadvantages. They are great for fighting big fish on light tippets because the furling protects the tippet by absorbing shock. It is a matter of personal preference.

[dean_mt]

Originally Posted by silver creek

If the situation demands a 12 foot leader using a 9 foot base and 3 feet of tippet, you are not going to use a 5 foot base furled leader with 7 feet of tippet. When I fish Hebgen Lake I sometimes have to use a 15 foot leader with 5X tippet. Neither a single length furled base leader or normal monofilament leader is not going to serve for that situation and for a basic 9 foot 5X leader.

It is best to think of furling as a method of tapering a leader which can differ in design, materials, and base lengths. If you never had to change that base length of a furled leaders, why are there so many length formulas?

For the record, I use both furled and hand tied leaders these days.

You can get furled leaders in many lengths. But if you still need to go longer and don't want the 6 feet of 5x that you describe, you can always add a couple feet of 4x to the end of the furled section, then 3' of 5x. It will work in the same manner as a hand knotted tapered leader.

But it is all a matter of preference and situation. Yesterday I was nymph fishing, using a Cutthroat furled nymph leader with the bright orange indicator butt section, great for tight-line/Czech style nymphing. Then I walked upon pods of fishing rising to midges in a broad riffle. I decided to leave the heavy-butt leader on as a sight aid, but had to go to a #20 fly. I left the three feet of 3x tippet on that I was nymphing with, added a foot of 4x and three feet of 5x. This made probably an 11' leader or so and it stretched out beautifully. Granted I was presenting a tiny wet fly, not a dry (I couldn't see the Griffith's Gnat for my life). But it worked well and I landed some fish.

I find the furled leader to be quite nice in most of my fishing situations.

But to the original question: If you want to try furled leaders, you should. It is simply the butt and taper section of the leader, just with a different material than hard mono. If you want it to preform like a Harvey-style leader and land with slack in the tippet, just make the tippet longer until your cast leaves the amount of S slack that you want.

Like raindog said, you probably over-thinking it. Buy some different furled leaders and use them and play around with different configurations. Check out Cutthroat Leaders and Joni's Fly Goddess site (Joni - The Utah Fly Goddess) both forum members and great folks.

[raindogt]

Man, I must be in an bar-fighting kind of mood today... But:

Quote// If the situation demands a 12 foot leader using a 9 foot base and 3 feet of tippet, you are not going to use a 5 foot base furled leader with 7 feet of tippet Quote//

I don't know the exact length of my leaders (I furl my own), but I do know that they are longer than I am tall, so 6.5/ 7 feet???? What situation would demand a 12 foot leader that an 11 foot (7 foot base, 4 foot tippet) wouldn't suffice?

IMO, A 5 foot furled is as much a 'specialty' leader as your 15 footer in your example. A well made 7 foot furled leader serve it's purpose as well as any other 'normal' leader.

Sure there are extreme situations (your 15 foot leader-- people will throw closer to 20 foot leaders in certain situations)-- but will your tapered store bought leader serve those purposes? not any better than a good furled would.

If you need a radically different leader than what is 'normal' by all means, tie your own, out of what ever material you want. But if I am understanding the need/ application correctly (I *think* it is 'normal' fishing conditions) I would encourage the OP to try the furled and understand that it isn't the be-all, end-all of what you could possibly need a leader to do. But I'd bet for most of the fishing applications that this board would encounter, it would be a solid option.

[Diver Dan]

Joni has made me a bunch of furled leaders that are 12' long. They are awsome. I have been using furled leaders almost exclusively these days. At least I was before we froze over like a brick.

As for being worried about all of those knots in a hand tied leader, I only use two knots. A perfection loop on the butt, and blood knots the rest of the way down. I don't worry about all those knots because I know I tied them right and work very well. That is when I use a hand tied leader.