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Old 03-16-2013, 07:02 AM
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Default Longer rod = less leverage to fish fish? really?

Hi - this came up in another thread and I've read it in at least one fly fishing book I own. The argument is that for offshore SW fly fishing that a longer rod provides the fish more leverage against the fisherman and therefore should not be used.

Didn't someone famous say that "with a long enough lever you can move the earth"?

To me this makes absolutely no sense. Can someone explain how a longer rod would provide you less leverage? And if so, what's the cut-off. Does a 9' rod give the max you can get, and anything longer is a disadvantage? Does a 5' fly rod give you more leverage than a 9' rod? I'd always assumed that if someone used a "shorter" rod for offshore fishing that they had done so simply because a really long rod (10-14') would be cumbersome to move around on the boat.

I'd like to see the opinions on this and obviously mine are pretty clear . Thanks!
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Old 03-16-2013, 08:03 AM
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Default Re: Longer rod = less leverage to fish fish? really?

Personal opin. here only: Rod design and size of fish. 'Big fish' rods frequently have fairly soft tips (leader protection) and 1/4 to 1/3'rd the way down really stiffen out. Idea is you can really put pressure to the fish (sooner in/sooner released).

Just like People, fish build up Lactic Acid if over stressed; in many cases this is what will end up killing same after a long fight.
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Old 03-16-2013, 08:11 AM
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Default Re: Longer rod = less leverage to fish fish? really?

A longer lever arm gives you more leverage, and the fish more leverage. But since you're stronger than the fish, it works in your advantage.
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Old 03-16-2013, 08:22 AM
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Default Re: Longer rod = less leverage to fish fish? really?

Stand up tuna rods, short no nonsense and easier on the fisherman harder on the fish. A longer rod in that situation is equally tough on the fish but much harder on the angler. Its more rod to move and less efficient for the typical straight up and down battle that you'll have offshore in the deep water. The same will apply to a fly rod used in the same manner. The longer the rod is you get to tipping point where the fish has just as much rod working against you as you have against the fish. But this is pertaining to fish that run deep and have way more power than any fresh water species you're going to encounter with sturgeon and big Alaskan salmon the exception.
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Old 03-16-2013, 09:05 AM
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Default Re: Longer rod = less leverage to fish fish? really?

But a really short rod, though providing a ton of "leverage" provides much less ability to flex and protect the line from breakage correct?

Okay - this kind of makes sense. I just didn't think of it that way.
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Old 03-16-2013, 09:10 AM
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Default Re: Longer rod = less leverage to fish fish? really?

Tie a string on a 1# box of sugar. Get a 1' long stick and tie the string to the rod. Now extend your arm straight out and lift the box of sugar off of the floor........Now take your 9' flyrod and tie the same string to the end of the rod and while holding the rod straight out extend your arm and lift the same 1# box of sugar off the floor. Which is easier to lift? The 1' or 9'. ...The easiest to lift gives you, the rod holder, more leverage......However, the soft long rod better protects the leader from breaking, the longer rod is much more effecient to cast 80', and the fisherman can better hold the line up out of the water to clear obstructions and reduce the drag that the water creates when the fish runs. There is a good reason that heavy trolling rods are not 15' long or even 9' long. The fighting length is only around 5' when you exclude the gimbal length behind the reel and fighting handle. ....several years ago some of the heavy flyrods had a cork handle several inches above the normal casting grip. It was to enable the fisherman a little more leverage to pressure the fish. I believe they had rod breakage problems with that setup so the manufacturers quit the practice. Another trick was after the fish was hooked they had another rod that they slid up inside the casting rod to stiffen the rod for added fighting ability. I am not sure what happened to that trick. I suppose that the record keeping orgs. outlawed it.
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Old 03-16-2013, 09:12 AM
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Default Re: Longer rod = less leverage to fish fish? really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbineblade View Post
Hi - this came up in another thread and I've read it in at least one fly fishing book I own. The argument is that for offshore SW fly fishing that a longer rod provides the fish more leverage against the fisherman and therefore should not be used.

Didn't someone famous say that "with a long enough lever you can move the earth"? ........
I'd like to see the opinions on this and obviously mine are pretty clear . Thanks!
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Only if you have a movable fulcrum. Your rods fulcrum will be your hand. At the butt end of the rod.
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Old 03-16-2013, 09:17 AM
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Default Re: Longer rod = less leverage to fish fish? really?

Oh yea, I like those technical terms....'moveable fulcrum' .....The short side of the 'fulcrum' is where the power is multiplied.
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Old 03-16-2013, 09:24 AM
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Default Re: Longer rod = less leverage to fish fish? really?

I hear this often, but often think it is a llittle misleading. If I was going to move a log with a lever, I would cut a locust sapling before a willow, knowing the transfer of energy through a lever is changed by the amount the lever bends.
The more bend, the more the energy is dissipated. A short pool cue rod is actually a better lever when the pull is great- the point where the rod begins to resist bending is actually a better gauge of how long a lever you are actually using. The lifting power is in the butt of the rod, the bend is dissipating energy preventing break-offs. The 12 and up rods even have a second grip to provide a fulcrum point. It's why many rods are broken when someone is fighting a big fish- we tend to want to slide our hand forward onto the butt of the rod, moving the fulcrum point forward. The grip distributes the force over a larger area; grabbing the blank itself creates a narrower focus of energy. POW! It would be interesting to hear someone that knows Spey rods to discuss what makes them work well as fish fighting tools. Length of the handle and the taper of the rod both play a part. I might be way off base with some of this, as I'm going by observation from fishing and a life of moving stuff like logs, boulders, concrete slabs etc......



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Old 03-16-2013, 10:27 AM
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Default Re: Longer rod = less leverage to fish fish? really?

OK, let me explain it this way. I have seen big Tuna fight for a long time and wear a person right out. I have also seen a guy take 130 lb. test and hand line one in in nothing flat. In the lever, you are on the short end. That's the reason the IGFA does not allow rods that are overly short. Unfair to the fish.

Which end of a lever would you use to lift a cabin? Which end would the cabin be on? By the way, I use cabin because I have lifted a cabin so we could level it. My brother inlaw and I. "Give me a long enough lever and I can move a cabin" ~ Diver Dan
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