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Old 03-28-2013, 08:07 AM
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Default Re: Fly rod orgin

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Originally Posted by wjc View Post
Aye, that's where all of us are on this sinking ship. We no longer have a domestic economy.

What we used to be able to pay for a Fenwick or a Leonard, now goes to a Chinese rod,
That's true. I have an 8 wt Fenwick Blackhawk, that was made in Canada. Great rod that has stood the test of time. Too bad it's tech is from the early 80's. I'll hold onto it for nostalgia purposes , basically the rod I learned to fish on.
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Old 03-28-2013, 08:14 AM
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Default Re: Fly rod orgin

The only two rods I've ever had to send back for defects right out of the tube...........you guessed it,,, American made.
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Old 03-28-2013, 08:15 AM
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Default Re: Fly rod orgin

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Originally Posted by incoming2oclock View Post
I'm certainly not going to tell anyone where they should or should not buy an item but, I can tell you that, as a rod builder, that blanks made in China have issues with consistency. Are there some decent rods out there for a good price that are made in China?...........probably/yeah. At the end of the day, there's nothing wrong with someone who aspires to buy American made products, even if it's just American made fly rods, cars or whatever..........no one does it better than us! Fly fishing is one of our passions, the best blanks/rods in the world are made by Americans - small scale and large scale. If some people want to match their passion with American pride then that's awesome. If someone wants to buy off-shore product, then I don't think it's biggie. To a large extent, our politicians and an increasingly lazy and entitled workforce (generally speaking) have pushed manufacturing to other countries and that is unfortunate in many ways! Here's a thought........every time that I built a blank I really thought of it as a blank that I was building for myself. If it wasn't great then it was pulled from production. I'm not sure if a person in China, whose passion is fly fishing like mine, would do the same thing?
While this may very well be true, you must realize the fact that this can be just as easily flipped, and there is a lot of generalization here. Whos to say that the person making the blank in China does not care how it comes out (whether for passion of the sport or self pride). Just because someone is paid less does not necessarily change their personal values, especially if that lesser pay is due to a lower average wage.

Also, I'm sure there are PLENTY of people in the US who make rods and dont give a second thought if they made a mistake in the blank or not. While I certainly do admire your attention to detail and pride in producing quality items as a reflection of yourself, to say that that is not the same in another country has a little dose of prejudice and assumption in it.

And after everything, you very often get what you pay for. Maybe the rod is made in China so its just cheaper, and with that you take the chance maybe getting a defective product. Like someone said above, if all the rods were made here, they'd be much more expensive, and some people just couldn't afford the sport to an enjoyable extent. Plus, with warranties, defective rods dont necessarily matter, and you could be getting a better deal.

In the end, I dont dislike anyone for having American Pride and buying US products, but that excuse is SO often used to mask much more. I believe that it is not a good ethical practice to assume that rod buildings (or anything builders) in other countries dont have as much personal pride in what they make as we do. This is not to say it cannot be true and perhaps often is not, but it just seems wrong.
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Old 03-28-2013, 08:45 AM
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Default Re: Fly rod orgin

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Originally Posted by nick k View Post
While this may very well be true, you must realize the fact that this can be just as easily flipped, and there is a lot of generalization here. Whos to say that the person making the blank in China does not care how it comes out (whether for passion of the sport or self pride). Just because someone is paid less does not necessarily change their personal values, especially if that lesser pay is due to a lower average wage.

Also, I'm sure there are PLENTY of people in the US who make rods and dont give a second thought if they made a mistake in the blank or not. While I certainly do admire your attention to detail and pride in producing quality items as a reflection of yourself, to say that that is not the same in another country has a little dose of prejudice and assumption in it.

And after everything, you very often get what you pay for. Maybe the rod is made in China so its just cheaper, and with that you take the chance maybe getting a defective product. Like someone said above, if all the rods were made here, they'd be much more expensive, and some people just couldn't afford the sport to an enjoyable extent. Plus, with warranties, defective rods dont necessarily matter, and you could be getting a better deal.

In the end, I dont dislike anyone for having American Pride and buying US products, but that excuse is SO often used to mask much more. I believe that it is not a good ethical practice to assume that rod buildings (or anything builders) in other countries dont have as much personal pride in what they make as we do. This is not to say it cannot be true and perhaps often is not, but it just seems wrong.
Did you say prejudice? If you knew me, you would know that I don't have an ounce of prejudice in mind or soul. It is comments like this that are the reason that I don't go on forums. People like you tossing out racial and ethnic and religious bombs. I know what makes a perfect blank and rod. I design them and then I build them and then I fish with them - I honestly think that I am capable of building better product because of this. With that being said, I going to comment on a couple other things here and call it good.
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Old 03-28-2013, 09:01 AM
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Default Re: Fly rod orgin

While you may not be prejudice, quotes like "I'm not sure if a person in China, whose passion is fly fishing like mine, would do the same thing?" do not go a long way to show that. Why would you assume or doubt off the bat that someone in China with the same fly fishing passion would not have the same pride in their product.

Again, the truth whether they do or don't is negligible here, as you and I cannot know that, and cannot know it for any nationality. To pick out one nationality with cheaper average wages and who is receiving many of our countries jobs seems prejudice to me. Maybe this is just me alone, but this sound more than just "I cant speak for anyone else."

Incoming: I mean no offense to you, I would like you to stay on the forum and appreciate your contributions to the thread. I am not calling you prejudice, I don't know you, but sometimes people say things that are not always in good taste, despite how they mean them or truly feel. These statements can fuel bad ethics and ways of thinking.
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Old 03-28-2013, 09:08 AM
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Default Re: Fly rod orgin

Quote:
Originally Posted by nick k View Post
While you may not be prejudice, quotes like "I'm not sure if a person in China, whose passion is fly fishing like mine, would do the same thing?" do not go a long way to show that. Why would you assume or doubt off the bat that someone in China with the same fly fishing passion would not have the same pride in their product.

Again, the truth whether they do or don't is negligible here, as you and I cannot know that, and cannot know it for any nationality. To pick out one nationality with cheaper average wages and who is receiving many of our countries jobs seems prejudice to me. Maybe this is just me alone, but this sound more than just "I cant speak for anyone else."

Incoming: I mean no offense to you, I would like you to stay on the forum and appreciate your contributions to the thread. I am not calling you prejudice, I don't know you, but sometimes people say things that are not always in good taste, despite how they mean them or truly feel. These statements can fuel bad ethics and ways of thinking.
I call it as I see it - you inferred prejudice and that's a fact. I was talking about the fact the I (myself) have that passion, not a comparable to one in China who has the same passion.

The fact is that being on the same forum as you is my incentive not to contribute. Life is too short to be dealing with individuals like you who are looking for things that are not there. I'm not impressed. Truly unbelievable!
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Old 03-28-2013, 09:11 AM
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Default Re: Fly rod orgin

Have we become so PC correct that we can not discuss work ethics of other nationalities ?

I'll discuss the American side,,our work ethics, all too often, suck. I'm not paying 800 dollars,,, about 400 too much...for a fly rod to support a myth.

If I'm calling the cards on the table against the chinese, koreans, polish, american,mexicans,whomever,,,,,,,it'll have to be lived with.

As I see it, Americans have no leg up on anyone any longer.

I won't be so naive about myself as to say I do not have personal prejudices,,,I have tons of them. That is what makes our decisions on everything from what we eat to what we buy.
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Old 03-28-2013, 09:14 AM
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Default Re: Fly rod orgin

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Originally Posted by fly_guy12955 View Post
Have we become so PC correct that we can not discuss work ethics of other nationalities ?

I'll discuss the American side,,our work ethics, all too often, suck. I'm not paying 800 dollars,,, about 400 too much...for a fly rod to support a myth.
We sure have...
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Old 03-28-2013, 09:18 AM
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Default Re: Fly rod orgin

I inferred that a statement was worded prejudice, yes, I did not call you prejudice or say you meant it that way.

If you would like to criticize me for trying to ensure that not all Americans think of Chinese workers as sweat shop laborers making $0.12 an hour and don't give a sh!t about what their doing, then I willingly accept that criticism.

And AGAIN, I'm not saying you think that, but words can make slippery slopes such statements can cause people to bandwagon into bad beliefs.

Then there's what fly guy said, most often, American products do really suck. This belief that US makes the best products is a lie. We probably have the same work ethic in general as other countries, we just feel entitled and think we should be making 5x as much for it.
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Old 03-28-2013, 09:18 AM
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Default Re: Fly rod orgin

Incoming, Please understand that in on-line forums we have little censorship or editorial guidelines. Some folks are always going to get their political/economic beliefs in the way of the rods and reels we write about here. In the short time you have been hanging out with us, you have had plenty of valuable things to say and I implore you to grit your teeth, slouph off the commentary of a few and continue to share your knowledge with us. I have many rod and reels made her in America and many built off-shore. In the beginning of this thread there was an assumption that, if Flying Pig rods were made in China they were mere re-brandings. I'll kill two birds with one stone here: a. Re-branded, boiler-plate rods and reels from China are often low quality built by workers lucky enough to have a job and b. Chinese and, more so, Korean quality fabricators that custom construct fly rods (or computer motherboards or surf boards...) do so to the design and material specifications of their client who they value. Do they perform these tasks as well as Sage, Scott, Orvis or Diamondback did? Sometimes yes, often no. As Incoming said, if your passion is fly fishing and your are fabricating a blank, it is more than a technological craft; it is a labor of love. This "love" component is not for hire in any shop anywhere. It exists or not.

OK, Flying Pig Rods are built in China. Mine came in the mail yesterday and I will report on lawn casting it after this weekend (weather permitting). Out of the beautifully embroidered cordura covered tube it appears well made. The blank is straight, I rolled the tip and the spline is uniform and slight as it should be and the guides are perfectly aligned off spline. The thread wraps are more neatly covered in finish than a contemporary Winston with no overlap onto the gleaming black blank. The taper is very fast as specified by the American rod designer (and Forum member), this is no off-the-shelf, multi-door store, re-branded piece of work, this is a Flying Pig. I'll report more about this rod next week but for now, keep your World views to yourselves and stick to fly fishing...they don't fly fish too much in China.
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