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-   -   How to fasten two loops together (http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/forums/general-discussion/3397-how-fasten-two-loops-together.html)

Frank Whiton 02-20-2008 06:30 PM

How to fasten two loops together
 
Hi to all,

Here are instructions for connecting two loops together. The instructions will be placed in the FAQ. Are the instructions complete enough for a beginner to understand. I was thinking about adding a picture between Step 5 and Step 6 showing the line being pulled through the loop. Not sure it is needed.

Frank

Step 1

You need to have two lines with loops in the ends. This is useful for connecting a leader to a fly line or a tippet to a leader. A Perfection Loop or Surgeon Loop can be used. The loops shown in the photos are large for the sake of the demonstration. When fastening a tippet to a leader the loops should be as small as possible.

http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/ph...-IMG_04511.jpg

Step 2

Place one loop over the other.

http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/ph...-IMG_04571.jpg

Step 3

Pinch the two loops together between your thumb and forefinger.

http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/ph...-IMG_04531.jpg

Step 4

Take the end of the line you placed over the other loop and put it through the loop in the other line.

http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/ph...-IMG_04541.jpg

Step 5

Grasp the end of the line you put through the loop and pull all the slack through the loop.

http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/ph...-IMG_04681.jpg

Step 6

The two loops will inter-lock like shown in the picture.

http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/ph...-IMG_04551.jpg

Step 7

Grasp both lines and pull the knot tight.

http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/ph...-IMG_04611.jpg

tightlines57 02-20-2008 06:38 PM

Re: How to fasten two loops together
 
Looks good Frank, once again thanks! :frogdance

tbrillinger223 02-20-2008 07:03 PM

Re: How to fasten two loops together
 
Frank,

well done again!!

what knot did you use for your "leader" in the demonstration.

there should be a "how to" section and these posts should head them up.

Frank Whiton 02-21-2008 07:30 AM

Re: How to fasten two loops together
 
Hi tbrillinger223,

The knots are Perfection Loops. I used some old fly line so it would show up well in the photo.

Frank

fyshstykr 02-21-2008 02:11 PM

Re: How to fasten two loops together
 
Great post w/ great pics Frank.
It's amazing how many people do not get the "loop to loop" right, even after they have been shown.

tie one on 02-21-2008 07:19 PM

Re: How to fasten two loops together
 
Frank,

Do you ever have any trouble with perfection loop knots
not holding well. I read somewhere recently that the author
found less strength in a perfection loop knot than a surgeon
loop. Any thoughts, or experience ???

Tie One On

P.S.
Do you typically use the loop-to-loop only on the butt section,
or do use them on down the line toward the fly ? I've heard it
both ways, maybe that would be a good thread discussion???
Anyway, great illustration/pictures I'm sure they were a help to
others.

MacFly55 02-21-2008 10:57 PM

Re: How to fasten two loops together
 
..now I know why I have been making that connection wrong.. :(

Frank Whiton 02-22-2008 10:25 AM

Re: How to fasten two loops together
 
Hi Tie One On,

I have not had any problems with the Perfection Loop failing. I don't know which knot may be the strongest. So one knot may be stronger if you test them to failure but who cares. The Surgeon knot may be 100% and the Perfection is only 97%. Not enough difference in real world applications. There is also the question of which Surgeon knot we are talking about.

I have caught Salmon using a Perfection Loop but I used an appropriate sized leader. Normally when I am fishing for Salmon or huge big Rainbows like they have in Alaska, I would use a triple Surgeon loop instead of a perfection. I don't ever remember having a Perfection or a Surgeon knot fail. The failure will almost aways come at the fly knot.

Here is how you can test the three loops (double surgeon, triple surgeon and the perfection). Get ten pieces of mono that is about 15" long. Tie a Perfection Loop in one end and tie the knot as perfect as you can. Then tie a Double Surgeon loop (perfect again) in the other end. Take two wooden dowels and place then into each knot. Now pull until one of the knots fails. Do this ten times and you will know which knot is the strongest. When one knot wins do another series of ten test using the winning knot and the Triple Surgeon Loop. When you are done you will know which knot is the strongest but not if it is a 100% knot. I wouldn't worry which knot is 100% because all of these knots are strong enough to catch fish. Now if you break the line instead of the knot, then that is a strong knot.

I use a loop to loop at the butt and for a tippet. Keep in mind that most of my fishing is subsurface and I am not worried about hinging. I do think if you use small loops you won't notice any hinging. We all have to find a system that works for us. Now I will say that if I was fishing the Kvichak River in Alaska I would tie my short leader to the fly line directly with a nail knot and use a Triple Surgeon knot (not loop) to fasten my tippet to the leader. The Kvichak has huge 30+ inch trout that are extremely wild. I would want the simplest, strongest setup that I could use.

Frank

Jackster 02-22-2008 11:35 AM

Re: How to fasten two loops together
 
What a great idea posting that!
You wouldn't believe how many people put the tag through the wrong loop!
Might I suggest you post another picture showing the wrong way to do a handshake knot, where one loop is holding onto the other for dear life!

Frank Whiton 02-22-2008 12:36 PM

Re: How to fasten two loops together
 
Hi Jackster,

I am planning on doing that when I move it to the FAQ section. I am down right now with a bad back.

Frank


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