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Old 08-13-2015, 09:52 AM
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Default 3 busted rod tips while casting

I don't know what's going on with me. I have broken three rod tips on three seperate rods while making cast. The first one was on a 5wt redding persuit. I'm pretty confident that it was caused by the tip section working loose and it caused the frule to fracture. The second was on an 8wt redington voyant. First cast and boom the tip goes sailing off with the fly. It broke about four inches up from the frule very cleanly. The third last night was on a 8wt cabelas TLR series rod. On the second or third cast I hear a pop and the tip goes sailing off just like on the voyant. The break is almost identical to the voyant.

Is it me and my casting or have I just run into a really obscure set of circumstances?
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Old 08-13-2015, 10:04 AM
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Default Re: 3 busted rod tips while casting

My first guess is that the sections aren't joined tightly enough.

Use some ferrule wax, or just any paraffin on the male ferrule.

Wax isn't used on the ferrules to make it easier to get apart (though it might do that). It's there so you can put the sections together more tightly.

Put the sections together about 90° out of alignment, then twist and push until you have the sections aligned and tightened.

When you take the sections apart, DON'T twist them. Pull them straight apart.
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Old 08-13-2015, 10:56 AM
 
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Default Re: 3 busted rod tips while casting

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Originally Posted by zhaddock View Post
I don't know what's going on with me. I have broken three rod tips on three seperate rods while making cast. The first one was on a 5wt redding persuit. I'm pretty confident that it was caused by the tip section working loose and it caused the frule to fracture. The second was on an 8wt redington voyant. First cast and boom the tip goes sailing off with the fly. It broke about four inches up from the frule very cleanly. The third last night was on a 8wt cabelas TLR series rod. On the second or third cast I hear a pop and the tip goes sailing off just like on the voyant. The break is almost identical to the voyant.

Is it me and my casting or have I just run into a really obscure set of circumstances?
I would say the broken rods are due to something you are doing. The first break is near a ferrule and a loose ferrule is a strong possibility.

The second two were 4 inches away from the ferrule and probably not due to a loose ferrule. My guess is that you nicked the rod section with a bead head nymph or a split shot and the rod eventually broke at the point of damage.

When the backcast is in line with the forward cast, the fly line and fly are in line with the rod. Any cast in which the fly leg of the cast falls below the level of the rod tip will result in a tailing loop that may catch the rod leg of the cast OR possibly hit the rod. Whether the fly leg catches the rod leg or hits the rod depends on which is actually in the identical geometric place as the traveling fly leg.

When casting a heavier fly, the tendency is overpower the cast, and any sudden application power will cause a tailing loop. See my post on the thread below:

Any thoughts on a casting issue? - Fly Fishing - Fly Tying

The way to avoid this is to use an oval casting motion to separate the fly leg from the rod leg and to widen the loop to keep the separate the fly from the rod tip. Try a Belgian cast.

Casting Heavy Flies | MidCurrent

The Belgian Cast | MidCurrent


Busted! - Technique - American Angler Magazine


4. FLY IMPACT


According to Rajeff, one of the most common traumas a fly rod can endure is being whacked by a beadhead or other weighted fly during the cast.
“When a fly hits your rod tip, it could be traveling as fast as two hundred miles per hour,” Rajeff explains. “Imagine shooting a BB at your rod. When that happens, you’ve created an injury to some of the fibers in the rod, so when you bend or stress the rod in some way, that one spot fails. Then the rest of the area fails because the injury does not allow the stress to be distributed over a large area.

When you are casting beadheads, streamers, or weighted rigs, be extra vigilant about your casting stroke. Open your loops, or use the Belgian cast, which features a much more rounded motion. Learn to cast using the water load, in which you use the surface tension of your line and flies to load the rod. Not only will waterloading deliver effective, wind-fighting casts, but it will dramatically cut down on false-casting. The fewer false casts, the less chance you have of beaning your rod with that Clouser, Double Bunny, or Beadhead Stonefly nymph. For the sake of rod preservation, it’s important to work on your casting in all situations because the better caster you are, the less likely it is you’ll break a rod.”
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Old 08-13-2015, 11:03 AM
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Default Re: 3 busted rod tips while casting

Quote:
Originally Posted by plecain View Post
My first guess is that the sections aren't joined tightly enough.

Use some ferrule wax, or just any paraffin on the male ferrule.

Wax isn't used on the ferrules to make it easier to get apart (though it might do that). It's there so you can put the sections together more tightly.

Put the sections together about 90° out of alignment, then twist and push until you have the sections aligned and tightened.

When you take the sections apart, DON'T twist them. Pull them straight apart.
I'd make a money bet on what plecain posted above. Try putting the sections about 45 degrees 'apart' (is that the correct way of saying it?) and push/twist as you secure 'A' to 'B.'

The down side to this is you do not want to leave the rod rigged as above for an extended period of time (week/months). They can then become a total 'bit ch' to get apart. This is particularly true with 2handers ..... have two that are never going to come apart again with out a serious lesson on 'how to.'

I know the 'how to,' it just isn't working ........ But where I fish, rod rack on the Jeep, no real point in pulling them apart.

fae
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Old 08-13-2015, 11:18 AM
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Default Re: 3 busted rod tips while casting

I agree with Mr plecain as well
Just because the break is 4" away from the ferrule doesn't mean that's not the problem.
I've seen it happen. It's happened to me.
The joint comes loose, there's too much play in the tip section and it snaps. And that's not necessarily close to the ferrule.

You need wax
I use the stub of a bee's wax candle... works on tent zippers too
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Old 08-13-2015, 11:29 AM
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Default Re: 3 busted rod tips while casting

Quote:
Originally Posted by silver creek View Post
I would say the broken rods are due to something you are doing. The first break is near a ferrule and a loose ferrule is a strong possibility.

The second two were 4 inches away from the ferrule and probably not due to a loose ferrule. My guess is that you nicked the rod section with a bead head nymph or a split shot and the rod eventually broke at the point of damage.

When the backcast is in line with the forward cast, the fly line and fly are in line with the rod. Any cast in which the fly leg of the cast falls below the level of the rod tip will result in a tailing loop that may catch the rod leg of the cast OR possibly hit the rod. Whether the fly leg catches the rod leg or hits the rod depends on which is actually in the identical geometric place as the traveling fly leg.

When casting a heavier fly, the tendency is overpower the cast, and any sudden application power will cause a tailing loop. See my post on the thread below:

Any thoughts on a casting issue? - Fly Fishing - Fly Tying

The way to avoid this is to use an oval casting motion to separate the fly leg from the rod leg and to widen the loop to keep the separate the fly from the rod tip. Try a Belgian cast.

Casting Heavy Flies | MidCurrent

The Belgian Cast | MidCurrent



Busted! - Technique - American Angler Magazine


4. FLY IMPACT


According to Rajeff, one of the most common traumas a fly rod can endure is being whacked by a beadhead or other weighted fly during the cast.
“When a fly hits your rod tip, it could be traveling as fast as two hundred miles per hour,” Rajeff explains. “Imagine shooting a BB at your rod. When that happens, you’ve created an injury to some of the fibers in the rod, so when you bend or stress the rod in some way, that one spot fails. Then the rest of the area fails because the injury does not allow the stress to be distributed over a large area.

When you are casting beadheads, streamers, or weighted rigs, be extra vigilant about your casting stroke. Open your loops, or use the Belgian cast, which features a much more rounded motion. Learn to cast using the water load, in which you use the surface tension of your line and flies to load the rod. Not only will waterloading deliver effective, wind-fighting casts, but it will dramatically cut down on false-casting. The fewer false casts, the less chance you have of beaning your rod with that Clouser, Double Bunny, or Beadhead Stonefly nymph. For the sake of rod preservation, it’s important to work on your casting in all situations because the better caster you are, the less likely it is you’ll break a rod.”
I don't thinks its due to a fly hitting the tip as I haven't used any split shot or bead heads with those two rods. I think it may actualy be my rod case. I have one of those double cases that holds the rods while the reels are attached to the butt section. I'm thinking that maybe the reels are damaging the tips durring transport. Maybe I should start removing the reels durring storage/transport.

---------- Post added at 11:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:25 AM ----------

I'll try wax too
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Old 08-13-2015, 01:01 PM
 
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Default Re: 3 busted rod tips while casting

As to the location of a loose ferrule break, I was going by this from TFO and Sage. Breaks usually occur at the female side of the ferrule, it spits.

"When rod sections become unseated, fly rods can break. When failures like this occur, they are typically seen at the joint near the loose ferrule."

https://templeforkrods.wordpress.com...-and-ferrules/

"Improper Seating of Ferrules

Multi-piece rods come equipped with flexible ferules to give the most uniform action. In order for them to perform, they must be securely seated. Loose connections will give a “wobbly” feel when casting and can possibly break from the inside out.'


http://www.sageflyfish.com/blog/04/2...by-joe-mahler/
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Old 08-13-2015, 01:26 PM
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Default Re: 3 busted rod tips while casting

Quote:
Originally Posted by silver creek View Post
As to the location of a loose ferrule break, I was going by this from TFO and Sage. Breaks usually occur at the female side of the ferrule, it spits.

"When rod sections become unseated, fly rods can break. When failures like this occur, they are typically seen at the joint near the loose ferrule."

https://templeforkrods.wordpress.com...-and-ferrules/

"Improper Seating of Ferrules

Multi-piece rods come equipped with flexible ferules to give the most uniform action. In order for them to perform, they must be securely seated. Loose connections will give a “wobbly” feel when casting and can possibly break from the inside out.'


http://www.sageflyfish.com/blog/04/2...by-joe-mahler/
I haven't been "twist" locking the sections. I will start doing this from now on maybe that could be the issue.
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Old 08-13-2015, 02:42 PM
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Default Re: 3 busted rod tips while casting

I've been using a double rod caddy with reels covers like yours for about 10 years. I've never had a rod break or come apart while casting. I notice today that the single rod caddy I just bought ( to mount on my bicycle) doesn't have separate slots for the upper and lower halves of the rod, so I'm loading it in there with the rod sock on, even though it's a little tighter fit.
I used to always use the rub-the-male-end-of-the-rod-next-to-my-nose method. Haven't bothered with it for a long time.
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