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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2017, 11:47 AM
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Default Re: Is the dip in fly fishing just a cycle

If the statistics are saying stable.... 1 in 1 out.... then I'm not going welcome any new fly fishers. LMAO
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Old 07-16-2017, 10:26 PM
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Default Re: Is the dip in fly fishing just a cycle

I think my province would be a great case study if there were to be one regarding fly fishing vs spin casting.

I live in Alberta, Canada and we have 2 major cities 300 km (190 miles) apart so its far enough that visiting the other isn't common for a day trip fishing. Both cities are roughly the same size at over a million people, similar household incomes, similar cultural makeup and similar education level. You will be hard pressed to find two cities more alike than these two (though the inhabitants of each will tell you otherwise). The only real difference is geography and i believe this is the major indicator on whether fly fishing will become popular opposed to spin casting.

In the Calgary area we have very few lakes but are blessed with countless mountain streams and a world class river running through the city, basically every major motorway in the city crosses it and in many cases more than once. On any day it would be uncommon to not see someone fly fishing while driving to or from work. For a city of over a million people we have 7 fly shops not including the big box stores like the Fishin Hole, Cabelas, Bass Pro and Wholesale sports who all have large fly fishing sections.

On the other hand we have Edmonton who has an abundance of lakes but few quality streams. Fishing is just as prevalent there as it is in Calgary but they have 0 fly shops, just the same big box stores that Calgary has but with smaller fly sections.

I guess the preconceived notion that exists here is that fishing lakes its best done with spin gear, and fishing streams is best done with fly gear. You can also view it as fishing for Pike and Walleye which inhabit most of their still waters vs fishing for Trout which is the main resident in our streams.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2017, 06:31 AM
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Default Re: Is the dip in fly fishing just a cycle

Did you ever think that we are to blame. How many of you have taken a kid under 16 fly fishing. I fish on Pa. Waters and if I see another fly fisherman he's usually a old goat like me. I see some younger ones fishing in the special fly fishing only sections but not many. I only know one young fella who is a true blue fly fisherman. When he told me he wanted a 3 weight rod to dry fly fish I sold him one of my old Orvis rods for $10.00.

Some of you fellas make fly fishing way to complicated and can see why young folks don't bother. I've been fly fishing since the 60's and I don't understand half the stuff you talk about on here.lol
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Old 07-17-2017, 10:56 AM
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Default Re: Is the dip in fly fishing just a cycle

The bulk of local fishing folks in my area tend to see fly fishing as something that's only viable in a rocky mountain stream or maybe some tailrace somewhere. There is a fairly small sized group of seemingly well-healed cosmopolitan individuals that on occasion work the relatively close by local saltwater with fly gear in between jetting off to the glamorous destination fly fishing spots across the globe. Houston had another independent fly shop open up this Spring. It looks from the marketing information I've seen to be aimed squarely at the affluent globe trotting fly fisher folk (nothing wrong with knowing the market).

As far as grass roots broad popularity reach the masses interest in fly fishing around my region, I see the chances to be slim and none and slim just left the building. There are hordes of people that fish here. Some big number want to just chill in the boat, soak some bait, maybe catch some dinner and drink some beer. Nothing wrong with that, but where does fly fishing fit in that paradigm?

Others are real students of the water and the fish, but all too often they seem obsessed with bigger and more and competition, driven to keep up with the Jones' or get ahead of the crowd. There are countless tournaments and countless photos of fish where one person posts a photo of a fish and then someone comes along posting a bigger specimen. If that's the mountain you are on or are in the process of climbing, fly fishing is going to seem to be an unnecessary and time wasting detour.

Then you have all the instant gratification and the insatiable need for it and fly fishing definitely doesn't fit with all that.

There are some people that here embrace fly fishing here locally in all water, salt or fresh, some that are young and not wealthy as far as I can tell. They are all in, so to speak, but that seems to be a tiny fraction of the pie. I think it's hard to see the attractions of fly fishing from the outside looking in. I once had difficulty seeing what I now know about fly fishing. People learn by mimicry and its hard to do that if there isn't anyone to mimic. I think there needs to be a critical mass to make something gain momentum. I don't see that mass forming here anytime soon.
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Old 07-17-2017, 12:25 PM
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Default Re: Is the dip in fly fishing just a cycle

Just another read:

Why Isn't Flyfishing Growing in Popularity?

And much more detailed breakdown here:
http://www.outdoorfoundation.org/pdf...rchFishing.pdf

If percentages are remaining fairly constant, that means more people are fly fishing today than 5 years ago. Another thing is where is population growing; low or high density suburban, urban, or rural areas? Huge impact on type of recreation.

Opportunity versus Barriers.

When it comes to fly fishing lets face it, there are a lot of barriers: Portrayed, "It's technical"; Perceived, "for the rich"; and real: distance, transportation, no mentor...."

Portrayed: We do a great job in explaining rod loading and swing weights and rod length....but we forget that in reality (I included) how simple it really can be. We see the physics as being key features because we have made it into an art for ourselves. We critique strokes of a rod on a river where others critique strokes of a brush on canvass . My 6 year old niece was catching fish on my fly rod. She has no clue about moment of inertia, straight line path, or tight loops. What she did know was how fun it is to hook, and lose, quality fish.

Perceived: If I and picked up a fly fishing magazine the apparent cost would cause me to think twice about the sport. $1000 rods, $400 reels, $600 waders, $200 wading boots, $80 lines, $200 glasses.....Now we all know this isn't the case but this cost is advertised and perceived. Now any initial investment into a recreation isn't inexpensive but those ads can make it appear economically unobtainable for many.

Real. The vast majority of our population does not have access to waters and when they do many are filled with "stuff" that I wouldn't want to be around. I had a couple of hours few weeks ago and visited a local bass pond. Never fished there before. What I saw disgusted me. A bit of trash in an urban pond can be expected but the hypos on the bank made me pack up and leave. Distance then becomes an issue and what is the likelihood of meeting a fly angler in an urban setting? You would have to seek them out.

These are just some examples and by no means even begins to touch on the topic of any decline in a recreation and we could go as far as complex regulations. When I see a recreation showing no growth in terms of percentage, there is more at work than A River Run Through It movie; and Youtube........ may not be as helpful to the beginner as many think. Have many of you spent time reading the comments? Half the stuff posted would get you banned from this forum....or at least it should. lol
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Old 07-17-2017, 01:59 PM
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Default Re: Is the dip in fly fishing just a cycle

I'll stand by one of my earlier comments... the number of fly fishers could drop by half tomorrow and I would be thrilled. There's already way too many fly fishers on the rivers around here and many are hacks.

I would feel a lot different if I was depending on the sport to make a living, but I'm not, so this market survey/popularity information is of no real significance to me.
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Old 07-17-2017, 07:43 PM
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Default Re: Is the dip in fly fishing just a cycle

My experience is the number of fly fishers is growing. On my local stocked river I see just as many fly fishers as spin fishers, which is a huge change from 10 years ago. The "destination" rivers are even worse. I floated in the Catskills yesterday and we could've used a traffic cop for all the boats.
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2017, 08:42 PM
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Default Re: Is the dip in fly fishing just a cycle

Quote:
Originally Posted by stenacron View Post
I'll stand by one of my earlier comments... the number of fly fishers could drop by half tomorrow and I would be thrilled. There's already way too many fly fishers on the rivers around here and many are hacks.

I would feel a lot different if I was depending on the sport to make a living, but I'm not, so this market survey/popularity information is of no real significance to me.
LOL. I hear ya. There's some draw backs to a declining industry (if true). I really wish I could remember where() I read this but when it comes to cold water conservation efforts fly fisherman lead the way. When a resource has no economic value, it loses consideration. Sure there's always the aesthetics but that is a much harder sell as there is no real value.


I tad drastic but to the point. lol With industry backing, the middle ground can be won when you have big dogs barking in your corner as well.

Also look at all the new equipment. Yes we can do without A LOT of it but some of the stuff we really enjoy. Gore-tex waders versus neoprene; carbon fiber, glass, bamboo rod choices; how about still attempting to float horse hair compared to pvc. I mean if the customers aren't there, the products and innovations will be fewer and more than likely MUCH more expensive.
This doesn't mean we go out and advertise every known water to accommodate the laziness of the weekend warrior to get people interested.(Sorry, rant cont.)

I agree the rivers can get crowded but I don't want to see this recreation find a corner in histories footnotes either. I don't see a decline. As a Population grows, populations and sub-populations grow within it.

When you write "hacks", I'm unclear on your meaning. Etiquette (if that is your reference) is on the decline, to that I would absolutely agree.
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2017, 10:58 PM
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Default Re: Is the dip in fly fishing just a cycle

Quote:
Originally Posted by corn fed fins View Post

When you write "hacks", I'm unclear on your meaning. Etiquette (if that is your reference) is on the decline, to that I would absolutely agree.
The middle and lower sections of the Provo River are very popular (semi-famous) tailwaters within easy reach of the 2.2 million (and counting) people that call the Salt Lake Valley home. As such they are under constant pressure from guides, their clients, and their cast-offs (former clients). Many of these people, including the guides, have little respect for other anglers and even less for the fish. They show up pre-rigged with a handful of the fly-of-the-month and one-trick bobber rigs and flail away looking more like a monkey trying to **** a football than an angler. They bring their dogs, leave their trash, and basically just occupy space on a crowded river. They represent neither the past, nor the future, of this sport. They spend some money on gear, most of which is probably turned over at the next yard sale. They come running at the sight of a fish hitting the net out of fear that you are either standing in the money hole and/or using the magic fly… either way they seem to think that they are entitled to this information and equally entitled to move right in on you.

It's reached the point now where I will only fish the Provo River during winter or foul weather when the crowds are thinner, or during the week although neither gets you away from the guided trios. The guides are ruthless as well… they love to crowd you and will even assume that you're a hack and try to sell you on the "there's a great spot just down river and nobody fishes it" sales pitch.

It's not ALL, but there are MANY… too many. A "dip" in popularity? I would welcome that with open arms.
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2017, 11:10 PM
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Default Re: Is the dip in fly fishing just a cycle

Quote:
Originally Posted by stenacron View Post
The middle and lower sections of the Provo River are very popular (semi-famous) tailwaters within easy reach of the 2.2 million (and counting) people that call the Salt Lake Valley home. As such they are under constant pressure from guides, their clients, and their cast-offs (former clients). Many of these people, including the guides, have little respect for other anglers and even less for the fish. They show up pre-rigged with a handful of the fly-of-the-month and one-trick bobber rigs and flail away looking more like a monkey trying to **** a football than an angler. They bring their dogs, leave their trash, and basically just occupy space on a crowded river. They represent neither the past, nor the future, of this sport. They spend some money on gear, most of which is probably turned over at the next yard sale. They come running at the sight of a fish hitting the net out of fear that you are either standing in the money hole and/or using the magic fly… either way they seem to think that they are entitled to this information and equally entitled to move right in on you.

It's reached the point now where I will only fish the Provo River during winter or foul weather when the crowds are thinner, or during the week although neither gets you away from the guided trios. The guides are ruthless as well… they love to crowd you and will even assume that you're a hack and try to sell you on the "there's a great spot just down river and nobody fishes it" sales pitch.

It's not ALL, but there are MANY… too many. A "dip" in popularity? I would welcome that with open arms.
Dang. Regular combat fishing. I haven't witnessed that much disrespect and lack of etiquette when it's elbows to elbows on the Taylor. Sorry to hear that
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