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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2017, 03:15 PM
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Default Re: Leader Knots

A couple of additive notes. RIO Hard Mono is 10+X better than old school Maxima. 12 -14' (though I'm inclined to go about 15 -16' on average) is plenty of leader length in the Bahamas and Belize but maybe not enough on the Downtown flats. A "steeper" taper means the butt and tippet are 4'+ but the mid sections are 16 to 10" for positive turnover. Tighten your blood knots with gloves or dish towels; your hands can not pull hard enough to tighten heavy fluro bloods without cutting yourself, trust me, you will see/hear them Pop tight. Understand that the Parabolic Test is the single most critical test of ALL leaders...if it does not form a perfect parabola energy can not be optimally trasefered. For any technical type presentation extruded leaders just do not make the grade, they handicap their user some of whom are otherwise expert anglers.
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Old 01-11-2017, 04:19 AM
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Default Re: Leader Knots

Quote:
Originally Posted by deceiverbob View Post
I have used uni-uni connection for leaders, I also use surgeon knots. I haven't noticed any appreciable difference. I don't tie blood knots. These days I usually use Rio's saltwater tapered leaders and add new tippet as needed.
I use double uni's too. I can just tie em faster and better than bloods, which only come out correct for me about 50% of the time vs 100% with the uni.

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Old 01-11-2017, 10:13 AM
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Default Re: Leader Knots

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetandsalt View Post
A couple of additive notes. RIO Hard Mono is 10+X better than old school Maxima. 12 -14' (though I'm inclined to go about 15 -16' on average) is plenty of leader length in the Bahamas and Belize but maybe not enough on the Downtown flats. A "steeper" taper means the butt and tippet are 4'+ but the mid sections are 16 to 10" for positive turnover. Tighten your blood knots with gloves or dish towels; your hands can not pull hard enough to tighten heavy fluro bloods without cutting yourself, trust me, you will see/hear them Pop tight. Understand that the Parabolic Test is the single most critical test of ALL leaders...if it does not form a perfect parabola energy can not be optimally trasefered. For any technical type presentation extruded leaders just do not make the grade, they handicap their user some of whom are otherwise expert anglers.
When I tie blood knots, I apply a little floatant to the knot before I start to tighten it, and just slides down very tight without having to crank on the line.
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:21 PM
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Default Re: Leader Knots

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Originally Posted by el jefe View Post
When I tie blood knots, I apply a little floatant to the knot before I start to tighten it, and just slides down very tight without having to crank on the line.
This is just right with trout sized Nylon monofilament, I just use saliva, slide your knots snug. With none-stretching, non-compressing, non-porous saltwater thick Fluorocarbon, especially in the upper 60 - 30# leader sections, this does not work. Fluoro needs to be snapped tight, it will not slide tight in these thick diameters. If not fully seated, fluoro knots can slip and fail and flats species do indeed pull hard.

The blood knot is an optimal and elegant knot with little bulk for leader construction. visual inspection for symmetry and full seating with no overlaps or gaps then pulling to test each knot is a prerequisite but once tying them becomes ingrained they are easy to tie. For a long 5X trout tippet I use six even 7 turns on each side, no problem, no breakage.
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:35 PM
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Default Re: Leader Knots

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetandsalt View Post
This is just right with trout sized Nylon monofilament, I just use saliva, slide your knots snug. With none-stretching, non-compressing, non-porous saltwater thick Fluorocarbon, especially in the upper 60 - 30# leader sections, this does not work. Fluoro needs to be snapped tight, it will not slide tight in these thick diameters. If not fully seated, fluoro knots can slip and fail and flats species do indeed pull hard.

The blood knot is an optimal and elegant knot with little bulk for leader construction. visual inspection for symmetry and full seating with no overlaps or gaps then pulling to test each knot is a prerequisite but once tying them becomes ingrained they are easy to tie. For a long 5X trout tippet I use six even 7 turns on each side, no problem, no breakage.
True, I do come from a trout-only perspective, and don't tie blood knots in fluoro that thick, so that's over my pay grade. I do also use blood knots and floatant to tie mono/fluoro connections, and despite the warnings offered elsewhere in this thread, I have never had a problem with such connections.
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:49 PM
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Default Re: Leader Knots

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Originally Posted by el jefe View Post
I do also use blood knots and floatant to tie mono/fluoro connections, and despite the warnings offered elsewhere in this thread, I have never had a problem with such connections.
The reason many recommend against this is because of the different properties of the two material types. The concern is the harder, none compressing Fluoro may cut into the porous stretchy Nylon. I, however, using Nylon only in my trout fishing, have no experience with this.
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:24 PM
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Default Re: Leader Knots

I agree with Salt, the blood knots really are the way to go. It's fun to chat about new ideas though.

I just had the urge to start a thread about actual fishing. We can only have so many threads on here about lines costing too much, rods costing too much, Chinese reels vs. Korean, and tech and/or conglomerates ruining fly fishing.....

I think I'll go start a thread now about using tippet rings to connect mono to flouro in your leader. Or maybe not.....

I did start one about favorite large streamer patterns but it fell flat. If anyone else gets bored, feel free to check it out and contribute. lol
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:52 PM
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Default Re: Leader Knots

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetandsalt View Post
The reason many recommend against this is because of the different properties of the two material types. The concern is the harder, none compressing Fluoro may cut into the porous stretchy Nylon. I, however, using Nylon only in my trout fishing, have no experience with this.
Yeah, I get where they're coming from. Just as you italicized the may above, I have not experienced that.

I have had only one blood knot fail, which was back in November. I was trying to tie it in 25* temperatures in a stiff breeze, which made my hands even colder. My floatant was too viscous from the cold to get any out of the bottle, which had gotten low, complicating matters. I tried to cinch down the knot with saliva, and I didn't get the knot to coil up too nicely. I had to play around with the tag ends and standing line to get some semblance of a blood knot before my fingers froze. I looked at that poor knot and expected it would fail at some point; I was just hoping that the knot would last long enough so that by the time I had to re-tie, things had warmed up to where I could tie a proper blood knot and use my floatant to cinch it down. My plan worked, by the way; after the fifth large rainbow that took my fly leapt a few times, the knot finally failed, but it had warmed up to the mid-40s by then.
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