Uni knot

[Pocono]

I've gotten into the habit of tying most of my on-the-water knots with hemostats. The two knots that I use most frequenty when at the stream are the double surgeon's loop (for leader to tippet) and the clinch knot (for tippet to fly).

Recently, I've gotten to the point where I've more or less convinced myself that I need to start using a tippet to fly knot that has more flexibility than the clinch knot; a knot that can give the fly better action in the water, based on offering a loop rather than a snugged down connection. So, I'm now using the Uni knot and; it could be my imagination, but it feels like I'm catching more fish with it.

I've got two question re: the Uni knot. First, does anyone know how to tie it with hemostats? I tried last night and was rewarded by loosing a nice fish within 10 seconds of the hook up. So, obviously, I'm doing it wrong; if it can be done at all. Second, on the Uni knots that I tie by hand, if I start out with a reasonable loop at the hook (maybe 1/4" loop), by the time I land the fish, it's snugged down against the hook; just like I was using a clinch knot. I can usually take my fingernails, pull back on the knot and create the loop again, but that doesn't give me much confidence in the knot when I cast out the next time. Any advice on tying/using the Uni knot? Thanks in advance.

 

[Frank Whiton]

Hi Pocono,

Tying your fly on with a loop is a very good idea. It doesn't have to be a very big loop. I don't know any way to tie a Uni Knot with hemostats. Here are a couple of ideas for you to think about.

1. Get yourself a Tie-Fast tool. It makes a good knot that will slip like the Uni. It is quick and handy to use. It just hangs on your vest.

2. Go to this FAQ question and click on the Orvis link. It will take you to the Orvis Knot tying program. Look up the Non-Slip Mono Knot. This is a loop knot that is easy to tie and is very strong. You could also tie with a hemostat after you tie your over hand knot. It wont' slip so you don't have to worry about opening the loop after ever fish.

Frank

Tie-Fast Tool

 

[Fish Bones]

TieFast tool is great

 

[Frank Whiton]

Hi Pocono,

I forgot to add my thoughts about the slip knot failing after use. With the Uni or the Tie-Fast knot if you leave the tag end long enough that you can grasp it with your hemostats, you can re-tighten the knot after a fish. You might not get it as tight as it was originally but it may take out any slack that has been introduced.

Frank

 

[Fly2Fish]

I don't hear much talk about the "Davy Knot" (named after Davy Wooten, who most recently "re-invented" it). For those "uninitiated", Davy Wooten is a well-known master fly-fisher who invented this knot for use in fly fishing competitions where time changing out flies is at a premium. It appears to be a simpler version of the Orvis Knot (not Orvis Tippit Knot), pretty much equating to a "Double-Eight" Knot, and is reputed to be close (or at) 100% knot strength.

Any thoughts?

 

[Pocono]

Thanks Frank and Steve.

I just got back this afternoon from a business trip. I'll head to my local fly shop tomorrow morning and pick up one of the TieFast tools. I'd still like to figure out a way to tie the Uni knot with hemostats. I like knots like the clinch, Uni and bowline that tighten on themselves under pressure.

I'm an experimenter at heart, so I'll give it a try and will let you know if I can get it to work (without loosing fish at the tippet/hook connection). Actually, I think I've got it conceptualized, but it's going to eat up a lot of tippet; which probably means that I'm actually back at ground zero. More tomorrow.

 

[Pocono]

Well, for those of you who like the Uni knot and tying flies on with hemostats; here's the result of the experiment. Long story short - you can tie a Uni knot with hemostats. Here's how:

1. Thread the eye as normal
2. Form the Uni knot loop and pinch against the tippet (keep the tag upright and out of the way (I'm right handed, so I pinch it between the middle and third fingers of my left hand)
3. Insert the hemostats into the loop (heading away from you)
4. Circle the hemostats clockwise as you would for a clinch knot - make five turns
5. Here's the important part: hook the tippet on your first clockwise turn and keep it hooked until you've completed all five turns
6. Reach up with the hemostats; open the jaws and grab the tag end of the tippet that you've held above the knot
7. Pull the tag end through the loop
8. Tighten the knot by pulling with the hemostats on the tag end
9. Slide the knot down to the desired loop size
10. Tighten the knot again by pulling on the tag end with the hemostats.
11. Cut the tag end to the desired length

That's it - and it works. I landed a 25' Rainbow this noontime and the knot held just fine.

Landing the fish snugged the knot up against the hook eye, but I just pulled it back again with my fingernails and it worked on my next fish, too. [For those of you who will want to resize your loop after hooking your first fish after tying on the fly, I suggest that you leave enough of the tag so that you can give it another pull with the hemostats (as Frank had suggested in his post)].

If you like the Uni knot, then here's a quick way to tie it and a particularly good way in cold weather.

 

[Frank Whiton]

Hi Pocono,

I like a guy who experiments. I am not sure I understand every step (especially that middle and third finger thing) but I will play with it.

Did you get yourself one of the Tie-Fast tools? I think you will like that knot. It sounds to me that you would be better off with the Non-slip Mono knot. You can tie it with hemos and you don't have to keep adjusting your loop after a fish.

Frank

 

[Pocono]

Hi Frank,

Yes, I picked up at TieFast tool today at my local shop and am having a look at the knot instructions tonight. I've also visited the Orvis link that you sent in your reply (thanks). I really would like a loop knot that doesn't slip. As you've picked up, I'm compensating for the slip characteristic of the Uni knot under tension.

All in all, I think I prefer the loop connection; rather than the snugged-up connection of the clinch, improved clinch, etc. It simply permits an additional degree of freedom for the fly on the water; another opportunity for it to behave more like the natural that it's attempting to imitate.

 

[sandfly]

for a loop knot try a Homer Rhoade's loop knot. Very easy to tie.

 

[Frank Whiton]

Hi to all,

Here is the Homer Rhoade's loop knot that sandfly mentioned.

Frank


[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]1. Tie an overhand knot in the fishing line a few inches above the end but don't snug it up. After passing the end of the line through the eye of the lure, push the end back through the opening of the overhand knot.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]2. Tie another overhand knot above the first, making sure to tie the knot around the line. Finally, snug the overhand knots together.[/FONT]

 

[Frank Whiton]

Hi to all,

Here is the non-slip mono knot. This is a great loop knot that won't slip. Pocono you can see how you could use hemos after you tie the overhand knot. This is Lefty's favorite loop knot. It is strong and quick to tie.

I don't know why but the picture in step #4 is opposite than the others. The hook is on the right side. It kind of threw me when I saw the tag end pointing to the right.

Frank

 

[Pocono]

Hi Frank,

Thanks. I've tried them all and the non-slip mono knot does the trick for me. The Tie-Fast knot is also a slip loop knot; just like the Uni knot. I'm not sure that this knot can be tied with hemostats, but I'll have another look at it later this week or after the 4th.

 

[Pocono]

Hi Frank,

Just a quick update on the non-slip mono knot. It's still working well for me; not with hemostats, but it's a simply knot to tie and this time of the season (warm weather) it's fine for me without the hemos.

As you probably know, it shares a lot in common with two other knots; the ever-handy clinch and the bowline. On the one hand, it can be viewed as a clinch knot tied behind an intial overhand knot. On the other hand, as a bowline with a knot instead of a loop.

As long as I form the overhand knot first, pull to size it as I want it, push it up against the hook eye, then take the tag end up through the knot, make the wraps around the tippet stem and tuck the tag end back down through the knot, it gives me the size loop that I'm looking for; about a 1/4" diameter.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[smith950]

Frank,

Back to your first post on this thread. Why is tying a small loop a good idea?

Scott

 

[Frank Whiton]

Pocono,

Glad you settled on the Non-Slip Mono knot even if you can't tie it with hemos. It solves your problem of resizing the loop after every fish. The Tie-Fast is how I tie my mono loop to the end of my fly line. You can use it anyplace you might tie a nail knot.

Scott,

This is a good question Scott. I don't have a precise answer. Joni thinks that a larger loop may create a wave in front of the knot. I think with a small loop you have a firm loop that the fly can swing on. If the loop is too large the loop collapses and you don't get as good a loop for the fly to swing on. I don't use a loop a lot so my experience is limited. It could be that after a couple of good fish any loop will collapse. I have a feeling that the knot becomes part of the fly when it is snugged up like a clinch knot. I don't know how big a loop has to be before it is not part of the fly. The main reason I recommend a small knot is Lefty Kreh thinks it should be small. That alone is good enough for me.

So here is a question for all who are reading. Does the fish interrupt the knot to be part of the fly? Or do they see it as something the fly is hanging onto? Of course no one knows what a fish thinks but any guesses?

Frank

 

[axle27]

I use either the Improved Clinch (using Hemo's) or the Polamar knot. I can tie this one in the dark and it's pretty strong.

 

[Pocono]

Pocono,

Glad you settled on the Non-Slip Mono knot even if you can't tie it with hemos. It solves your problem of resizing the loop after every fish. The Tie-Fast is how I tie my mono loop to the end of my fly line. You can use it anyplace you might tie a nail knot.

Scott,

This is a good question Scott. I don't have a precise answer. Joni thinks that a larger loop may create a wave in front of the knot. I think with a small loop you have a firm loop that the fly can swing on. If the loop is too large the loop collapses and you don't get as good a loop for the fly to swing on. I don't use a loop a lot so my experience is limited. It could be that after a couple of good fish any loop will collapse. I have a feeling that the knot becomes part of the fly when it is snugged up like a clinch knot. I don't know how big a loop has to be before it is not part of the fly. The main reason I recommend a small knot is Lefty Kreh thinks it should be small. That alone is good enough for me.

So here is a question for all who are reading. Does the fish interrupt the knot to be part of the fly? Or do they see it as something the fly is hanging onto? Of course no one knows what a fish thinks but any guesses?

Frank

Hi Frank,

Just a quick update on loop knots. After using the non-slip mono knot for the past month, I've modified it by incorporating the wraps with a bowline knot. The difference is that instead of tying the overhand knot before making the wraps(3), I simply form a circle loop in place of the overhand knot, bring the tag up through it, make the wraps, bring the tag back down through the loop and pull tight. So, it could be looked at as a non-slip mono knot with a loop as the first step instead of an overhand knot. Or it can be looked at as a bowline knot with three wraps instead of one. One advantage to the new knot it that it's easier to size the final loop that connects to the eye (the one that we all care about) by sliding the loop than it is to size it by sliding the overhand knot. For right now, I'm just calling it a "3X Bowline" knot.

Also, on the loop size point, my take on that is that the real benefit to the loop is that it provides better "action" with regards to the movement of the fly in the water; making it behave more like a natural in the water flow. Once the loop is large enough to relieve the tight tippet-to-fly connection, there's no need for a bigger loop. The job is done. And, I think that the wave point may very well be true with a larger loop. So, I agree; a smaller loop is better.

 

[yatahey]

Frank,
I have a Tie Fast tool I use for nail knots. But, they don't have instructions for tying any other knots with it. I went to their site and they only have a pdf of the same instructions that came with the tool. Can it be used to tie a uni knot? If so how?

 

[jose]

My mistake. I miss read something. Sorry. Oops!