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-   -   Joining Furled Leader to Line without a Loop? (http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/forums/general-discussion/7060-joining-furled-leader-line-without-loop.html)

Fly2Fish 12-27-2008 06:30 PM

Joining Furled Leader to Line without a Loop?
 
For whatever reason (too-large loops, poor loop-to-loop interconnection, my lousy casting, etc.) I've never liked loop-to-loop connections because of "hinging". The other leader "quick change" method I use is the Scientific Anglers L2L Reconnect leader system. When the leader shortens down enough, I cut it back to the butt and build my own leader from that butt forward.

However, I'm interested in trying furled leaders but they all seem to come with loops on both ends. Simply cutting the line-end loop off and connecting it to my L2L leader butt with a blood knot doesn't seem to be an option because it looks like the furled leader would "unravel".

Any and all suggestions to attach the furled leader to my L2L leader butt (other than with the dreaded:banned:loop) would be gratefully appreciated. :welcome:

OldMan 12-27-2008 06:41 PM

Re: Joining Furled Leader to Line without a Loop?
 
I would tie a small loop on your line. Using nothing but the line. Loop to loop doesn't hinge.

Joni 12-27-2008 06:56 PM

Re: Joining Furled Leader to Line without a Loop?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fly2Fish (Post 42783)
For whatever reason (too-large loops, poor loop-to-loop interconnection, my lousy casting, etc.) I've never liked loop-to-loop connections because of "hinging". The other leader "quick change" method I use is the Scientific Anglers L2L Reconnect leader system. When the leader shortens down enough, I cut it back to the butt and build my own leader from that butt forward.

However, I'm interested in trying furled leaders but they all seem to come with loops on both ends. Simply cutting the line-end loop off and connecting it to my L2L leader butt with a blood knot doesn't seem to be an option because it looks like the furled leader would "unravel".

Any and all suggestions to attach the furled leader to my L2L leader butt (other than with the dreaded:banned:loop) would be gratefully appreciated. :welcome:

I have to agree totally with Old Man...I have never had a hinging problem nor the hundreds I have made and sold clients, But if you really think they are hinging, try a double surgeons knot or whatever you use to connect the sections on your mono.
Maybe a nail knot but don't cut the loop as it will unravel.
But how to connect it to a L2L you would need a little mono butt section.
Again, I say try a furl again....it really shouldn't hinge.

Fly2Fish 12-27-2008 07:28 PM

Re: Joining Furled Leader to Line without a Loop?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Joni (Post 42790)
. . . try a double surgeons knot or whatever you use to connect the sections on your mono.
Maybe a nail knot but don't cut the loop as it will unravel.
But how to connect it to a L2L you would need a little mono butt section. . . .

A double Surgeons knot might work, but it's hard to see how a nail knot would work. The line itself would have an L2L Reconnect fly-line end connector on it, which would attach to the L2L Reconnect leader-end connector, which in turn would have a foot or so of its original leader butt still attached to it. It's to this original L2L Reconnect short leader butt that I want to (permanently) attach the furled leader.

Looking at the furled leader (5 wt. BlueSky tapered), I suppose it would be possible to "thread & glue" its flattened loop to the remnant of original L2L leader butt, much as line loops are sometimes formed, but with my limited imagination it's hard to see how that loop end could be blood-knotted (my leader knot of choice until I get to the tippit, where I use a triple Surgeons Knot).

Auntie Em 12-27-2008 07:32 PM

Re: Joining Furled Leader to Line without a Loop?
 
In the foot or so of connected leader, tie a perfection loop ... a very tiny one ... at the very end. Then use your tiny loop in the furled leader to attach it!! It will not hinge.

Joni 12-27-2008 07:45 PM

Re: Joining Furled Leader to Line without a Loop?
 
I have to agree with Auntie, it would be the easiest and it does sound as though it is the easiest answer due to the fact you like that L2L. You could make a short butt section of 2 to 4".
If you want to send me a L2L connector, I will make a furled leader and attach it for you.
PM me if this interest you.

Frank Whiton 12-28-2008 08:28 AM

Re: Joining Furled Leader to Line without a Loop?
 
Hi Fly2fish,

I think you have several good ideas. I like Joni's idea. Take a piece of mono leader about .023 dia and tie it to the loop in the Furled leader. I would use an Albright knot or a Uni knot or even a Palomar knot. Now take the piece of leader and tie it to your L2L connector leaving the leader only a couple of inches long. Connect your L2L connector together and you are good to go.

This way you can change leaders and it should not hinge. If you are getting hinging you may need to shorten the leader from the L2L to the fly line. Unless you have the L2L connected directly to the fly line?

Frank

afishinado 12-28-2008 09:22 AM

Re: Joining Furled Leader to Line without a Loop?
 
Admittedly, I’m a loop guy. I use loops on the end of my fly line and on the end of the furled leaders that I make. I have no issues at all with hinging at the loops. As a matter of fact, the loop has double the material at that point and it is actually stiffer. A side benefit to that is the loop at the end of the fly line has twice the amount of fly line and it actually floats better. Is it possible that the vast majority of those complaining about hinging do not attach the loops correctly? The fly line loop goes through the leader loop, and the tag end of the leader goes through the fly line loop. The result should look something like a square knot, or some say, the loops should “shake hands”. Why would doubled up line hinge? Just saying.

Fly2Fish 12-28-2008 11:41 PM

Re: Joining Furled Leader to Line without a Loop?
 
4 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Whiton (Post 42830)
. . . Unless you have the L2L connected directly to the fly line?

Thanks, Frank and others, for the responses. I'm afraid I wasn't clear enough about how the Scientific Anglers L2L Reconnect Leader systems work. In the two sequential images below, the green portion attaches to the end of a fly line (overhand knot is tied at the end of the fly line, then pulled into the green cone to secure the green line-side connector to the line end. The orange section on the right (color varies according to leader weight) is permanently attached at the factory to the butt end of the leader. So it is a simple matter to change out leaders whenever desired (I pre-rig a number of dropper rigs ahead of time on these leaders which I keep in an Orvis Dropper Rig flybox, to save rigging time on the water).

I recognize that a lot of fly-fishers use and like loop-to-loop connections, but I don't, because they hinge on me for whatever of the reasons I listed earlier. All I'm trying to find out (& there may not be an answer) is if there's some way to attach the cut back leader butt left on the L2L leader-side connector to the heavy end of a furled leader without using a loop-to-loop connection. It's not obvious to me how to do so without a loop, since cutting off the existing loop on the furled leader end would cause it to unravel.

Joni 12-28-2008 11:58 PM

Re: Joining Furled Leader to Line without a Loop?
 
I know about them and have used them before. I just can't see paying for something a knot or two loops can do. Just me.
This is why I said, you send me the leader end and I would try to build you a furl right off the connector, just like a regular leader.
Actually a cool idea, because the furl last allot longer than a regular.....all you do is attach tippet.


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