Frank - You make good points. It's important to be aware of what we buy and why those goods are priced as they are. You are in a minority regarding the research you do. At some point, the U.S. market must be protected, but today we are in a tough spot with China, as we have many financial dependencies on them. A few years ago, there was a very negative response to outsourcing. This practice by foreign importers is worse in terms of a negative effect on the U.S. economy. It's almost equivalent to dumping in that while the producer is not actually selling below costs, it's the issue that the labor producing the good is making a paltry amount and never increases benefits as the producer increases profits. In this way, the foreign producer can undersell a U.S. producer to the detriment of not only its U.S. competitors but of its own labor force as well.
It's just a choice we who fly fish must make. I chose not to purchase. However, if I was interested in and could afford real carved solid jade or an authentic Ming that would be another matter.
Now if I was in the war/revolution business with fat oil bucks...no way china...it's usa either through the front door or back door. We do make the best in the war market that is if you got the bucks...
The Big Baby Taylor is right up there with Seagull for sound quality. Taylors just have skinnier necks that don't work as well for my fat fingers as the wider neck on a Seagull. I'm likely spoiled for life by that neck width. Now if I can just get a Telecaster with a Seagull neck on it......
I said that I bought a "classical" acoustic. It is a nylon string cut back guitar with a 2" fret at the top! I also have big fingers...... and a 2" is probably bigger than your steel stringer?
As soon as I got the guitar, I replaced the strings with: D'Addario Pro-Arte Classical Normal Tension strings.
I don't play in a band, I just play for my relaxation. A nylon string acoustic is so easy to slide and bend.
I don't play the Esteban **** DVD's....... I rock out with Led Zep, Hendrix, Bowie, and Queen!
You know, toe tappers I learned in church! http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...6/IMGP4082.jpg
Please note, I put some comments directly after mojo's, with a <start reply> and <end reply>
Originally Posted by mojo
Some food for thought- Made in Asia. Long and lengthy diatribe.
Think about this carefully, take some time to let it sink in before answering.
I'm no economist, not a businessman either (did own a bar years ago). Just a fly fisher with some questions.
Having recieved a beautiful pair of new Simms wading boots (made in China) for Christmas and a few posts on a previous thread, I wanted to start this thread.
Funny that Simms has boots made in China, possibly prison labor, when their marketting focuses so much on how their wader are made in the USA, and priced exhoribiantly because of it. Given that people in China make about $.50 a hour versus $15 in the USA, I hope the simms boots are DRAMATICALLY REDUCED IN PRICE! <end reply>
It seems like big box stores like Walmart-largest retailer in the world have nothing but Made in China tags on everything stocked on the shelves. Are these products getting better in the past few years then they initally were? Can we buy something that's made in the United States anymore?
<start reply> sure you can! Just go to walmart, you can buy tie fast fishing products made in Chico California, or Scientific America (which some products are made in the USA), or water Gremlin split shots, or Scientific angler, some of which are made in the USA)<end response>
Just to keep it in the fishing realm, I'll pick on The House of Hardy, Orvis, Outcast and Simms.
Are the Asians putting out better goods- Hardy rods and reels, or Orvis flyreels, (we'll add Loop for tlcrep) when they used to be built in Great Britan, and Sweden, or Simms waders and boots that used to be built in the U.S. now made in China? Things like float tubes/ kickboats (Outcast, Creek Co. some Bucks Bags etc.) that are now made overseas. Are companies like Hardy or Orvis, Outcast, Simms and others dependant on the reputation of being a "Hardy" or "Orvis", Simms or "Outcast", without good quality control
<reply> People ARE people. Not being American doesnt make yu a worse craftman! That being said,
1) a Korean SHOULD support companies that use korean workers, a chinese person SHOULD support companies that use chinese workers (given a price they can afford, of course
2) if a reel costs $75 to make in the US, and $5 in China, (I know people in the industry, the US price is a guess, but the $5 for reels from China IS NOT!), and a company switches making the reel in the US to CHINA, AND THE PRICE STAYS THEY SAME, YOU ARE GETTING FUDGE RAPED!! I am not saying Chinese are not a good employees as Americans, but I dont think I have to explain what is wrong <end reply>
Ross reels has dropped some reels people liked, and they have, like Redington, gone overseas to have some products built. How long is it until Winston (the main line), Sage, T&T, Orvis (main line) move over to compete.
So, what's your views, thoughts on this subject.
Winston already has to some extent (their low end). I find it very unlikely that T&T or Sage would have their high end products made overseas, but I wouldnt be surprised if they take the Winston model. I think Orvis has the highest probabilty of having its high end rods and reels made oversas,