The North American Fly Fishing Forum


Go Back   The North American Fly Fishing Forum > General Fly Fishing Discussion > General Discussion

General Discussion General discussions regarding fly fishing as a whole. Ask questions. Get answers...

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2010, 03:20 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 12
foothillstrout is on a distinguished road
Default A Fly Question

When you are fishing, I know most believe in working a section of the river over thoroughly. The Question I have is how often do you change your flies. I know you can make hundreds of casts to give a hole a complete work over. But how long should one cast the same fly when want to be thorough without being crazy for throwing something that is obviously not producing the desired results. I know to try and match the hatch but this questions applies mostly to scenarios when there is no hatch.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2010, 03:57 PM
Hardyreels's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Wasilla / Skwentna, Alaska
Posts: 11,700
Blog Entries: 70
Hardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond reputeHardyreels has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Yahoo to Hardyreels Send a message via Skype™ to Hardyreels
Default Re: A Fly Question

If there are flies on the water and fish are active (considering you have a fly the right size and color) and you are not getting results it is more a question of the presentation than changing the fly.

If there are no fish active trying to pound them up is not usually a good strategy. If you face these conditions it would serve you better to stay hidden from the fishes view and locate a fish (if possible) once located if the fish is stationary near the bottom etc. watch carefully to determine if and what type of feeding it is doing.

If the fish is not feeding it will have the perimeter alert system up and running. You are better off to mark this spot in your mind and try another time. Trying to induce a strike can work at times but more often we only further condition the fish to be wary of another source of possible threat. Catching fish sometimes is more about Patience than anything else. The more you know the better you will fish. For the fish, the less it knows about the association between people (threats) and artificial flies (connected threat) the better you will be positioned to catch any given fish.

What I have said is key to why we all dream of finding undisturbed waters to fish in. Undisturbed waters provide fish with less conditioning or at least fish who have not had a recent lesson in threat recognition.

I hope what I have shared with you makes sense and that you will give it consideration. This is part of the system that has allowed me to fool / catch more fish than it would do to mention.

Ard
__________________
Anywhere can be the land of great expectations, broken dreams, or paradise found, it's all up to you.

Life On The Line - Alaska Fishing with Ard

The Alaska Fishing & Outdoors Blog;
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 11-27-2010, 08:42 AM
wjc wjc is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: south florida
Posts: 1,455
wjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant futurewjc has a brilliant future
Default Re: A Fly Question

Good advice Ard. Most fishermen regardless of gear are in way too big of a rush to get the fly, lure into the river/stream. I learned at a young age from an old time worm dunker who fished steams with a 20' long telescoping fiberglass rod that stealth is the key - especially on hard fished water.

He would approach a steam like a cautious deer hunter and get no closer than about 18' so he could fish the near bank after watching the stream for what, to an eager kid, seemed like an eternity. Once he had a plan, he'd hook a worm to his fixed 4' of mono, stick the worm to the top of his rod with its own slime, or spit, extend it through the puckerbrush, roll it 90 degrees and tap the butt so the worm would fall off into the water.

A lot of watching before casting, and coming up with a plan has always produced better results for me than pounding the water with a wide variety of flies.

Cheers,
Jim
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 11-27-2010, 12:02 PM
webrx's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 1,424
webrx is a splendid one to beholdwebrx is a splendid one to beholdwebrx is a splendid one to beholdwebrx is a splendid one to beholdwebrx is a splendid one to beholdwebrx is a splendid one to beholdwebrx is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: A Fly Question

Hey, if the fish aren't biting the flies, stick a worm on!

Just kidding!

Ard and WJC are indeed correct in thier approach. also, if you have not done so previously, you should make sure you know what the fish are eating at the time, or at least what is in the water. turn over a rock, observe the rocks near the edges, see if you can figure out what the fish have available to them to eat. If you have done this and are using the right size and color, and are fishing in "fishy areas" and still are not catching fish, then you can try going up or down in size, or fishing a stimulator.

Remember, in the winter time, with the cold water, you often times have to put the fly right on the fishes nose to get them to take it, so, in cold water, fish areas thoroughly, starting with the edges (where you plan to enter the water) and working out systematically.

d
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 11-27-2010, 09:00 PM
FrankB2's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Southeast Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,760
FrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond reputeFrankB2 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: A Fly Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyreels View Post
If there are flies on the water and fish are active (considering you have a fly the right size and color) and you are not getting results it is more a question of the presentation than changing the fly.

If there are no fish active trying to pound them up is not usually a good strategy. If you face these conditions it would serve you better to stay hidden from the fishes view and locate a fish (if possible) once located if the fish is stationary near the bottom etc. watch carefully to determine if and what type of feeding it is doing.

If the fish is not feeding it will have the perimeter alert system up and running. You are better off to mark this spot in your mind and try another time. Trying to induce a strike can work at times but more often we only further condition the fish to be wary of another source of possible threat. Catching fish sometimes is more about Patience than anything else. The more you know the better you will fish. For the fish, the less it knows about the association between people (threats) and artificial flies (connected threat) the better you will be positioned to catch any given fish.

What I have said is key to why we all dream of finding undisturbed waters to fish in. Undisturbed waters provide fish with less conditioning or at least fish who have not had a recent lesson in threat recognition.

I hope what I have shared with you makes sense and that you will give it consideration. This is part of the system that has allowed me to fool / catch more fish than it would do to mention.
Ard
Perfect......
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 11-27-2010, 11:01 PM
gjcordray's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Parker CO
Posts: 286
Blog Entries: 6
gjcordray is a jewel in the roughgjcordray is a jewel in the roughgjcordray is a jewel in the roughgjcordray is a jewel in the rough
Default Re: A Fly Question

All perfect advice.

I would add this. If you are site fishing to feeding fish, I change flies after every 10 good drifts in the feeding zone. I mean if they are feeding, and you aren't hooking one, change up. That is assuming you are being stealthy.

If I am fishing to an area that looks "fishy" but I cannot see fish for one reason or another, I might make more casts before changing flies and move more often.

In the winter in gin clear water no more than two feet deep, I have made 30 or 40 casts to a single feeding fish changing flies four or five times before hooking him.

But if you are disturbing water or charging into a hole without thinking first, you might as well throw in a leader with no fly attached. You are not going to have a very good change of hooking any fish that way.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 11-29-2010, 09:04 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 30
gwozdz is on a distinguished road
Default Re: A Fly Question

When nothing seems to work, put on a Hornberg!
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2010, 10:31 AM
Jimmie's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Upper Mojave Desert
Posts: 1,800
Jimmie has a brilliant futureJimmie has a brilliant futureJimmie has a brilliant futureJimmie has a brilliant futureJimmie has a brilliant futureJimmie has a brilliant futureJimmie has a brilliant futureJimmie has a brilliant futureJimmie has a brilliant futureJimmie has a brilliant futureJimmie has a brilliant future
Default Re: A Fly Question

A book that I've got says change every 15-20 minutes if no takes. In another thread FrankB2 said "Size, Silhouette, Color" in that order, so if I was searching for size maybe change a little more often at first.
I've only done this a couple of years so consider your source on my input. Good info by the guys above.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2010, 11:28 AM
Frank Whiton's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 5,301
Frank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond reputeFrank Whiton has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Skype™ to Frank Whiton
Default Re: A Fly Question

Hi Everyone,

Some really good advise, one of your best Ard.

I don't carry many flies and never have. If you fish the same waters all of the time you know what flies the fish like. If I changed my fly it would probably be the size first. I do often change flies when I have been catching a lot of fish and then I experiment with different flies. It is kind of seeing what fly they won't take under those conditions. Overtime you know what flies work on your water and that is what you fish with.

When I was a young fellow I use to fish the high Sierras a lot. There was no competition and I seldom saw other back packers or fisherman. I started with a pack full of flies of every size and color. I finally ended up with three flies that I carried and left the others home. The California mosquito, the Black Gnat and the Irresistible in size 14 and 12. Most times I fished the size 14 Irresistible and never changed the fly at all.

So to answer your question I think fishing the right fly for your water is the key and don't spend a lot of time changing flies. The hard part is figuring out what is the right fly. You can walk in to any local fly shop and they will tell you what the fish are biting on. Talk to a local fish biologist and he will know what bugs are in any water in his area. Fish the same water a lot and learn the best flies to use. I don't think changing from a proven fly for something different is the best way to catch fish on water that you know. Look at every thing around you and what you are doing. Check you log book for that same day or weather and see what was working then. Fish the same spots that have proven successful in the past. Remember that not all parts of a river support fish. On new water you have to fish every place. On known water fish the spots that produced fish in the past. This is especially true with Steelhead. You can catch Steelhead from the same spots year after year.

Frank
__________________
Click the image to open in full size.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 12-02-2010, 01:16 PM
bjweller's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Aurora, Colorado
Posts: 127
bjweller has a spectacular aura aboutbjweller has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: A Fly Question

I have been on three guided trips with professional in two different states in the last ten years. All three were great guides. They all three said that the average fisherman pounds a particular section of water way too long. They were all three movers. They suggested moving a couple of times first before changing flies.

I have about four fishing buddies and it's great when we all four can go out together because we all rig up differently and then see who catches the most and the fastest. Then we all change to what that person is doing.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
new to me rod question pecos10 General Discussion 8 05-06-2010 10:52 AM
3wt question. ab fisher Fly Rods 9 05-02-2010 01:36 PM
7wt question Sasha Fly Rods 6 04-19-2010 11:01 PM
Question about your dog Jimmie General Discussion 22 12-19-2008 03:28 PM
Got another question... Noworries Fly Rods 12 08-23-2007 08:28 PM













All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
2005-2014 The North American Fly Fishing Forum. All rights reserved.