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Old 04-10-2009, 09:44 AM
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Default Sink Tip vs. Sinking

What would the application differences be between sink tip and full sinking line?
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Old 04-10-2009, 10:35 AM
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Default Re: Sink Tip vs. Sinking

Good question. I like sink tips for moving water- since only the front tip sinks you can "mend" the floating portion of the line to get a good drag free drift. I also use them from shore fishing lakes and small ponds, where there is a gradual slope to deeper water, where a full sink line might be scraping along bottom near shore in the shallows.

For fishing lakes from a boat or float tube, or in SW fishing from a boat, a full sinking line will let you get deeper faster, and provides a direct connection between the rod, line, leader, and fly. A sinktip will have a "hinge" between the floating portion of the line and the sinking portion, so the connection is not as much in a straight line. A full sink line might be a better choice fishing along a shore line with a steep drop off close to shore.

Typically the waters i fish in FW the most are streams and rivers that are not too deep, so a 10 or 15' sink tip is a great choice for a second line, but I use a floating line 90% of the time. (It's great choice for fishing streamers early season or in high water.)

You can cheat a little by buying "poly leaders" that will essentially allow you to use your floating fly line as a sinktip. They come in different densities (sink rates) and lengths usually 5' and 10' feet for trout to get to different depths and attach to your fly line with a loop to loop connection. It's a much less expensive option than buying a sinktip or sinking fly line if you want to give it a shot, and it's quick to change onstream from fishing floating stuff on the surface to getting deeper. Many flyshops carry these from Airflo and/or Rio, but here's an example (5' Airflo Trout Polyleader):
Airflo Poly Leaders & Braided Leaders at BEARSDEN.COM

Hope fully others will chime in with their experience.

mark
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Old 04-10-2009, 11:02 AM
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Default Re: Sink Tip vs. Sinking

What type of fish are you targeting? How deep is the water?

The only time I use a full sinking line is when I'm on the boat fishing 30' of water or more. With a sinking fly and a 10' leader your going to sink 10' even with a floating line. Sinking lines are more dificult to lift and mending with a full sink is impossible.
I understand the direct connection theory but with saltwater fish the hits are usually hard they straighten out my line in a hurry anyway so I've never noticed that issue but every situation is different.
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Old 04-10-2009, 11:30 AM
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Default Re: Sink Tip vs. Sinking

the first reply gave you a very good overview of the various applications, advantages, and disadvantages of each. you will find that very few fly anglers use full sinking lines unless they are fishing lakes/ponds (stillwater). in moving water, a selection of sink tip lines (for various rates of speed at which you want them to sink) is really all you need. they cast, mend, and retrieve much easier. there is a bit of an "art" to balancing sink tip lines and rods to various fishing applications. the factors are: desired fishing depth, speed of current, casting ability, rod weight, and sink rate. but sink rate is a function of the grain weight and length of the sinking head of the line, and these vary widely by mfg and model. in my experience, you will need to underline rods quite frequently when using very fast sink rate sinking or sink tip lines. underlining means that if you have a fast sinking 6wt line, you may find it much more castable and manageable when loaded onto a 7 or even 8wt rod. the simple reason for this is that while fly line weight nomenclature is standardized, rod weight nomenclature is NOT. so mfg's simply put their own "suggestion" of what they believe is the ideal balance (usually for a weight forward floating fly line) for that particular model of fly rod on the rod. based on your casting style, preferences, and circumstances, you may very well find that their suggestion is off by as much as 2-3 line weights. this is especially true of fast action fly rods, which typically should be over-lined by 2-3 line weights even with a weight forward floating (wf#f) line if you have learned a proper casting stroke.

i could go on ad infinitum about this subject alone, but that's a whole different topic! just be aware that you need to educate yourself and experiment as much as possible with sinking/sink tip lines and your fly rods before investing much money in them so that you make sure you've got stuff that will actually work well for you. trial and error at the cash register can be an expensive path to take. scientific anglers has a pretty good on-line tool on their website for getting a very rudimentary idea of how various grain weight sink tips correspond to rod weights. but again...rod weight ratings are merely suggestions which vary widely from mfg to mfg and even from model to model within a single mfg's line.
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Old 04-10-2009, 11:40 AM
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Default Re: Sink Tip vs. Sinking

I have a different opinion of full-sink lines than Mr swirlchaser.
They're good for fishing deep, but their main advantage is that they don't 'ride up' every time you strip line like a sink tip or a floating line would.
If I can get away with it I'll sometimes even fish a full sink even while wading. The advantage is that you can crawl your fly right along the bottom.

Another situation where I (most) often use a full-sink is when the wind is really howling.
Full-sinks are thin and heavy and will cut through high wind so much better than other lines that it's worth any other problems that you might need to deal with.

Conventional wisdom says always use a short leader with sinking lines.
Not true, leaders need to sized to the situation.
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Old 04-10-2009, 12:03 PM
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Default Re: Sink Tip vs. Sinking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rip Tide View Post
I have a different opinion of full-sink lines than Mr swirlchaser.
They're good for fishing deep, but their main advantage is that they don't 'ride up' every time you strip line like a sink tip or a floating line would.
If I can get away with it I'll sometimes even fish a full sink even while wading. The advantage is that you can crawl your fly right along the bottom.

Another situation where I (most) often use a full-sink is when the wind is really howling.
Full-sinks are thin and heavy and will cut through high wind so much better than other lines that it's worth any other problems that you might need to deal with.

Conventional wisdom says always use a short leader with sinking lines.
Not true, leaders need to sized to the situation.
Rip,

Doesn't it drive you crazy to strip all the way back in and start your cast from scratch again? I can't lift a sinking line to save my life unless I roll cast until my shoulder falls apart
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Old 04-10-2009, 01:03 PM
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Default Re: Sink Tip vs. Sinking

Well, the fishing I was planning on doing would be fishing bass in shallower bays, and possible walleyes from a boat, but not in more than 20 feet of water. Would a sink-tip be better for this?
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Old 04-10-2009, 01:31 PM
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Default Re: Sink Tip vs. Sinking

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEMNflythrower View Post
Well, the fishing I was planning on doing would be fishing bass in shallower bays, and possible walleyes from a boat, but not in more than 20 feet of water. Would a sink-tip be better for this?
I always fish bass with a floating line. Half the time I'm throwing top water flies like poppers and gurglers so the floater comes in handy. If I use some type or streamer like a wooly I let my leader do the sinking.

As for the Walleye, I've never even seen one nevermind caught one
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Old 05-03-2009, 08:45 PM
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Default Re: Sink Tip vs. Sinking

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEMNflythrower View Post
Well, the fishing I was planning on doing would be fishing bass in shallower bays, and possible walleyes from a boat, but not in more than 20 feet of water. Would a sink-tip be better for this?
Personally, I'd get a full sinking line for bass fishing from a boat. I like the straight line connection to the fish that you get with the full sinking, and the stripped line is going to be on the floor in the boat rather than sinking to the bottom of the lake/river. I've caught a lot more bass (and even walleyes and catfish) since I started using streamers. Anymore I only use topwater when the bass are extremely shallow or when I'm fishing over snags and weeds.

Even in water as shallow as 3 or 4 feet, the action of a sinking line pulling a deer hair streamer like the Zoo Cougar (see my post called Zoo Cougar) can be better than a weighted streamer on a floating line. The weighted streamer comes up on the strip then sinks on the slack, while a bouyant streamer with sinking line dives on the strip and either suspends or slowly rises on the slack.

As for stripping the line all the way to the boat, bass and walleyes frequently follow a lure without taking, then clobber it when it comes up right at the boat. I'd fish the cast aqll the way back. The bass in my Zoo Cougfar thread hit it really hard, about 15 feet in front of me.
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Old 05-04-2009, 10:14 AM
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Default Re: Sink Tip vs. Sinking

Peregrines covered it, and RipTide added a fine point about the skinnier sinking lines casting better in the wind.
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